[Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python

[Tim Johnson]

* Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> [060206 11:30]:
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2006, Danny Yoo wrote:
> 
> > >   <grin> Avoid debuggers like a plague. If someone applies for a job
> > >          with us and starts talking about their proficiency in
> > >          debuggers, the interview stops right there and we keep looking.
> 
> I can see that bragging about "proficiency in debuggers" would be a
> strange tactic in an interview, demonstrating an off-center focus.
 
  Hi Marilyn:

> But the debugger is sure handy now and then.  I try to *think* first.
> That usually finds the problem.  Sometimes one or two print statements
> or an assert sorts it all out.  But, sometimes I'm stuck, and using
> the debugger is the quickest way to unstick me. 

  I've never had to use a debugger in python..... "C", well that's
  another issue entirely ....
 
  As I write, I'm not yet seeing my reply to Danny, but you should
  probably see it as you read this. That should answer your questions
  and comments....

> So you wouldn't hire me?  Your loss.  :^)
 
  :-) But youre focus isn't off-center is it?
  
> While people are talking like this, and about IDE's, the thing I miss
> in the Python debugger is the ability to attach commands to a
> breakpoint.  Does anyone know how to do that?
> 
> I use Linux and keystroked emacs to avoid mousing.  And I use a macro
> in emacs to get around not knowing how to attach commands to
> breakpoints.
 
  On emacs I use simple output stubs for debugging. I *definitely* agree
  regarding keystrokes as opposed to mousing. But it is nice to have
  both. 
  
  On a related note, a few years ago, the local Electric Utility sent
  its entire Autocad Tech staff to a training session where they were
  trained to use Cad without the mouse. Following the session, they
  found that they had a 15% increase in productivity.

  I borrowed the <grin> tag from Danny. I probably use it a little
  differently than he does. Maybe I should use 
  <wink-wink-nudge-nudge>

  Cheers
  tim

> Marilyn
> 
> > 
> > Hi Tim,
> > 
> > Seriously?  I know that the implication is that sufficient test cases and
> > design will ferret out bugs, but this attitude toward debuggers surprises
> > me.  Steve McConnell, author of Code Complete, makes it a point to
> > recommend running any new code through a debugger just to force the
> > programmer to dig though the abstractions to see what the program's
> > actually doing at a low level.
> > 
> > In particular, I've found a debugger invaluable in diving through old C
> > code that I have not written.  Admittedly, I don't use debuggers in
> > Python, but I do see the value in forcing oneself to jump levels of
> > abstraction.  But maybe this approach is obsolete now and I'm just an old
> > fuddy-duddy.  *grin*
> > 
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> > 
> 
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> 
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-- 
Tim Johnson <tim at johnsons-web.com>
      http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com