[Tutor] Losing the expressiveness ofC'sfor-statement?/RESENDwith example

Kent Johnson kent37 at tds.net
Fri Aug 10 14:34:11 CEST 2007


Stephen McInerney wrote:
> Guys,
> 
> I'm annoyed at how far offtopic

If you get annoyed at threads drifting off-topic you'd better stay away 
from all public mailing lists!

> and frankly rude the responses to my 
> email were,

Re-reading the entire thread I don't see anything I would construe as 
rude. I think you need to lighten up a bit.

> I didn't get much decent opinion on my central question:
> "isn't this idiom more restrictive than C/C++/Java (aka the rest of the 
> universe),

You got considerable disagreement, it seems to me. Most of the posts are 
either explicitly disagreeing or trying to point you to the Python way 
of doing things.

> Nobody attempted to address the valid
> follow-on question about generators returning a tuple (e.g. walking a 
> pointer,
> and incrementing a count, let alone anything more complex)

I don't see any question about generators and tuples. Maybe you should 
start a new thread about that, it's pretty off-topic for this one ;)

> - quibbling the motivation for the quicksort example I gave was clearly 
> offtopic;
> I'm very well aware there are better Python implementions, that's 
> irrelevant;
> the motivation was to give a legitimate example which clearly arises 
> commonly.

Wait. You say it is a "legitimate example that occurs commonly" but we 
are not allowed to talk about other ways to do it?

You actually seem to have two items on your agenda
- convincing us that for loops in C are more powerful than in Python, 
and that Python is lacking
- changing the docs to reflect this

We don't buy the first item so the second one doesn't get much traction.

> - This is offtopic,

Uh oh!

> but the C for-loop syntax is very syntactically 
> powerful,
> so when people perceive Python lacks it, they may baulk at that. We have to
> do a better job selling why Python is better.
> The C for-loop syntax itself is not error-prone at all.
> Unless you mean off-by-one errors etc., missing initializations, and 
> those are mostly semantic not syntax-related.

Yeah other than that it isn't error-prone at all.

>> > It's regrettable we have to choose between the clear and the
>> > efficient, in this situation.
>>
>> The most clear and efficient is probably:
>>
>> myList.sort()
> 
> Alan - this was totally unnecessary and trashes the entire (legitimate) 
> context of my question.

The point is that Python has efficient ways to do many common operations 
that may be different from the way you expect.

Kent


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