[Tutor] Python CMS advice wanted

jim stockford jim at well.com
Tue Nov 27 19:28:56 CET 2007

On Nov 27, 2007, at 9:40 AM, Scott SA wrote:

> On 11/27/07, jim stockford (jim at well.com) wrote:
>> IMO:
>> my experience with cms systems is that there's a big
>> learning curve. you might have more fun (and be more
>> productive and maybe more creative) if you use the
>> available appropriate python modules and cobble
>> together your own site.
> Woah, I whole-heartedly disagree with this. Sorry!
perfectly okay and somewhat hoped for. note the points
* "cms systems have a big learning curve": largely true
and often unsuspected how big.
* "might have more fun (and be more productive...":
depends on his talents and ambitions, some people
like coding despite the problems and responsibilities.

>>    maintenance, especially by some one else, would
>> be an area to worry about: each cms system has its
>> own community of experts, a few of which are always
>> available to help. your custom code would present
>> new people a learning curve.
> This is why I disagree: maintenance.
> Oh yeah, how about: security!
very good point, security.

> Along with expediency, quality and a bunch of other things like maybe 
> the OP would like a life too (i.e. not be a slave to supporting his 
> own code).
for sure one of the considerations, depends on his talent, ambition,
and build-or-buy proclivity.

> Frankly, the OP (Richard) does not really need the 'full-meal' of a 
> CMS. He's looking for a templating system (cheetah, myghty, kid) and a 
> mechanism to organize code into a web application of sorts.
what are the learning curves of cheetah, myghty, kid?
also,  http://screencasters.heathenx.org  seems at the lean end of the
richness spectrum (per looking for a templating system), so of all
possible python projects, his is within reasonable limits as a candidate
for building from available modules (i.e. from scratch).

> While there are some behemouth CMS options (Zope/Plone) there are some 
> lighter ones (turbogears) and even ones that are not as much CMS but 
> frameworks (django, pylons, even quixote).
> Yes, some of the frameworks/CMS have small communities (quixote) but 
> others (django, tubogears) are quite active. Still, each _do_ have a 
> community and if th OP chooses one that has a critical mass (all of 
> the above), he will find ample help to get over the humps & bumps.
evaluating the community around a framework/cms product
is an important part of evaluation.

> I'm presently working with Django and am thoroughly enjoying it. While 
> it isn't perfect, nothing is, it is very well documented and has a 
> vigorous community. I have worked with Zope and Quixote (ridiculous to 
> the sublime), Django is a nice blend of features with an intelligent 
> API for my needs. Your mileage may vary.
>>    expansion and extensibility would probably be as
>> problematic regardless of your choice: you can
>> expand/extend your code depending on available
>> modules and your imagination/skill. you can expand/
>> extend a packaged cms system depending on how
>> it presents an API and/or other means and limited
>> by what the people coding, managing, and releasing
>> the cms package choose to add (there'll sooner or
>> later be bloat in everything, you want your bloat or
>> some one else's?).
> Do you think a person with emerging skills is going to create clean, 
> elegant code that optimizes Python's strengths? No aspersions toward's 
> Richard's skills, just going by his own remark: "I have a rudimentary 
> knowledge of Python"
certainly not: experienced coders generally code much better
than in their pre-experienced state. Note the key issues are
* does he want to take on coding
* does his project reasonably permit his doing so (time to market)
* is there some special customization he has in mind

> If the OP had stated some really specific and very unique 
> requirements, there may be justification but telling someone to 'roll 
> their own'. It is like saying there are side-effects to the latest Flu 
> shot so you better go create your own.
> I don't mean to be critical of you; taking the time to express your 
> constructive opinion is a valuable act. However, in this case I don't 
> believe it serves in the best interest in the OP's requirements.
your comments are very informative. this is a build-or-buy issue, and
i hope what we're writing provides some helpful insights to those who
are considering python projects, including richard.

> There are some truths to what I believe you were trying to say. Some 
> CMS/Frameworks like Zope are to be avoided, IMHO, unless they satisfy 
> some specific requirements (the Zope sites I have are a bear to extend 
> for reasons outside the scope of this thread). They are bloated or 
> just non-starters, but thankfully they are not the only options.
it would be nice to have some comparative information
on these products: does anyone know of a web site or
other source that compares CMS/frameworks?

> To close, I strongly suggest the original poster Richard check out 
> Django, TurboGears and Pylons. I don't have much exp. with the latter 
> two, but there is a reason they are generally popular. While those 
> reasons don't meet with my req. they may meet with his.
> It is _always_ easier to engineer/re-engineer from a _good_ base of 
> knowledge than it is to start fresh... though an open mind is equally 
> important.
> I hope this helps,
> Scott
>> On Nov 27, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Richard Querin wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I've got a site that is currently a static site. While not
>>> unmanageable at the moment (it's still pretty young), we've been
>>> entertaining thoughts of converting it to a CMS system. I'm looking
>>> for some good suggestions based on some simple criteria:
>>> I'm a complete newbie when it comes to CMS systems so I'm not sure
>>> whether or not it might be better just to go with something like an
>>> install of Wordpress instead.
>>> Just looking for some suggestions. The current site btw is
>>> http://screencasters.heathenx.org
>>> RQ
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor at python.org
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