[Web-SIG] Defining a standard interface for common web tasks

[Steve Holden]

[amk]
>
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 01:51:50PM -0700, Bill Janssen wrote:
> > 1)  A good CGI module.  This should allow clear access to
> the various
> > values passed in the environment, as Simon points out.  I think the
> > current "cgi" module isn't bad at this, but I'm sure we can find
> > shortcomings.
>
> * Too much cruft.  We could either deprecate stuff in cgi.py with a
>   vengeance, or think up some new package organization.
>
My own preference would be for a new package altogether. The existing
module would be difficult to engineer onwards into something clean. Like
Topsy, it "just growed".

> > 2) A standard Apache plug-in.  Does mod_python fill this
> role?  (Should
> > this really be part of the stdlib?)
>
> Too much work for the stdlib.  Apache support suffers from
> the split between
> Apache versions 1.3 and 2.0; the API changed a *lot* between the two
> versions, but both versions are still pretty common.  Leave
> it to mod_python.
>
Agreed.

> > 3)  A standard stand-alone solution, but better than the
> three standard
> > servers already in the stdlib.  I been using Medusa lately,
> and rather
> > like its approach to things.
>
> The problem is that the code in the Medusa package is written really
> unconventionally -- classes have lowercase names, it's still
> 1.5 (and often
> 1.4!) compatible -- and there's a lot of cruft here, too;
> it's often not
> clear which modules are intended for actual use and which ones are
> half-baked experiments.  This could be cleaned up if it's
> deemed worth the
> effort;

I think it would be worth the effort. I don't think Medusa has had the
concerted support that other environments have, and that's a pity
because it appears to strike an excellent balance between complexity,
efficiency and capability. I'd be prepared to help in such an effort
(once PyCon is back on track).

> I initially didn't want to embark on a big class
> renaming because I
> thought Twisted would quickly and completely replace Medusa,
> but that seems
> unlikely to happen.
>
Well, if those Twisted guys would stop implementing neat ideas and do
some serious work explaining the structure of the framework they would
probably find their code was more widely used. I suspect it will take
Twisted a long time to mature because the developers are who and what
they are. Their enthusiasm is admirable, but sometimes I get a bit
annoyed by the hand waving :-)

My experience is that people who've been walked through the Twisted code
one-to-one by a Twisted developer "get it", but that just reading the
docs or listening to conference presentations doesn't cut the mustard.
Or maybe that's just me...

regards
--
Steve Holden          +1 703 278 8281        http://www.holdenweb.com/
Improve the Internet           http://vancouver-webpages.com/CacheNow/
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Interview with GvR August 14, 2003       http://www.onlamp.com/python/