[Web-SIG] and now for something completely different!
Phillip J. Eby
pje at telecommunity.com
Thu Aug 18 05:00:49 CEST 2005
At 10:33 PM 8/17/2005 -0400, michael bayer wrote:
>its usually not my experience either, and I have rarely written any kind
>of app that uses sessions. 99% of everything I've done relies upon
>browser state as well. although despite my being there "when the web was
>won" in 95, I am hesitant to call myself a RESTFUL developer...to me, REST
>seems to be taking some common sense ideas and turning them into some kind
>of rigid ideological crusade, which is just as bad as all the other
>ideological crusades we "web winners" had to fight with IIS and active
>server pages, EJB, UML, SOAP, etc.
I agree; I just find it useful to use the REST banner because before that
word came around, there was nothing to call the approach. I'm a pragmatic
RESTee in that browsers don't do PUT and DELETE so POST is pretty much what
we have to work with for human-usable applications today.
>a document editing system is also a good example of where objects need to
>be persisted in two different scopes, i.e. a session-scope as well as a
>permanent scope. I dont really think a session has anything to do with a
>"physical three-tiered model". physically, it can be whereever you
>want. i just think its advantageous from a conceptual point of view.
I don't object to server-side objects that are session-specific; I object
to the "bag of arbitrary objects" session interface, that is typically
stored in a web tier or middle tier. Those are two distinct sins that are
usually coupled in what most people think of as "a session". When I say I
consider sessions harmful, it's specifically those two characteristics of
the common meaning of the term. I'm not saying that I think there's no
such thing as a "session" in the sense of a browsing session. Shopping
carts would be pretty hard to do, for example, without session-specific
server-side objects. I just think that storing the shopping cart data in
anything other than your application database is almost certainly a Very
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