[Web-SIG] PEP222 and python on the server?

Shannon -jj Behrens jjinux at gmail.com
Fri Jun 10 20:35:41 CEST 2005

Just for the record, Aquarium is both a proper framework (MVC, and all
that) as well as server glue (like WSGI--it existed long before WSGI
did), but it can also run on top of WSGI.


Best Regards,

On 6/10/05, Iwan Vosloo <iv at lantic.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> writes:
> >
> > If you take a look at WebStack (http://www.python.org/pypi/WebStack), you'll
> > find a framework which provides its own "transaction" API and which works on
> > top of other frameworks, precisely to avoid single project mappings such as
> > those found in MoinMoin, for example. Given that you're studying so many
> > "beasts", I'd appreciate anything you might have to say on the matter.
> I don't feel I quite understand these things well enough yet to make to many statements...  But I'm planning to float my impressions here when I get to that stage.
> But, WRT WebStack - I had it loosely categorised as "server infrastructure" with things like twisted, Webware, or PEAK.  But I see your point that it is trying to create a single interface to all of those.  And that would indeed be useful.
> My focus is more on the different models used by higher level frameworks that sit on top of, for example, WebStack (think CherryPy, Spyce, Zope, JSF, Struts, Tapestry and so on).  The common point of interest here though has to do with the fact that I feel it is better to put something out there that tries to solve a small piece of the problem only - and that provides easy ways to use a collection of other projects together to accomplish your total solution.  You have to be able to mix and match.  Webstack plays in this field. And if there is support in terms of common libraries that you can count on being part of the standard Python distribution so much the better.
> I am concerned with the quantity of concepts that each framework (especially large ones & especially the Java ones) invents.  This makes it difficult to understand "what they really do" (if that phrase makes at all sense).  Also, I find that the concepts they invent are rarely well researched - they are mostly ad-hoc inventions of the authors and never relate to the known body of computer science literature.  I'm also struggling to find much in the academic world regarding these animals.  Nice big gap, thus.
> > Another framework which follows the standardisation path, albeit with a Java
> > Servlet emphasis, is Snakelets (http://www.python.org/pypi/Snakelets).
> > WebStack and Snakelets are similar in certain respects, making me tempted to
> > consider a bit of integration of the two.
> I don't want to make provocative statements without being able to back them up, but I have a _feeling_ (which I am investigating more closely at the moment) that the whole Java servlet model is a bit passe.  Contrast it with something like CherryPy, for example, and just see what your gut feels...  Its like the servlet model was born back when people thought of web sites as "having dynamic content".  Now they see them as "web applications" and have taken that idea to a whole new level (in the Java world, anyway, albeit in its cumbersome ways).
> -i
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