[Web-SIG] Can't we all just get along? (was: Re: wsgiconfig design)

René Dudfield renesd at gmail.com
Sun Jul 8 16:11:11 CEST 2007

I think the reason is that zope, and paste are not named for what they do.

I mean, without knowing what's in them, zope and paste are kind of
abstract things for people.

I mean if something was called zope.configurator vs configurator -
people might think the zope one is zope specific.  That it's for zope,
or used with zope.

Putting all the zope bits separately in the cheeseshop makes it more
obvious that they can be used separately.  But I still keep thinking
they are zope specific things - even though I know they can be used

Same for paste.

That is my thinking anyway - maybe other people think that way too.

On 7/8/07, Jim Fulton <jim at zope.com> wrote:
> On Jul 7, 2007, at 3:01 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:
> > Jim Fulton wrote:
> >> On Jul 6, 2007, at 11:41 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:
> >>> Every so often I get in this cleanup/redux mood where I feel a
> >>> need to
> >>> revisit things I've done before in an attempt to Do Them Right.
> >>>
> >>> We've discussed Paste Deploy here before, and I'm thinking about
> >>> Redoing
> >>> It Right.
> >> Cool.
> >>> I thought I'd share some thoughts on the design:
> >>>
> >>> I still am quite happy with the entry points from Paste Deploy,
> >>> and plan
> >>> to keep them,
> >> Me too.  In fact, I'd really like them to have their own identity
> >> independent if Paste Deploy. People should start supporting these
> >> entry points even if they use some other application to put them
> >> together.
> >
> > I've tried to encourage people to use this, but they get stuck on the
> > word "paste", so there's not many other people who consume or produce
> > these entry points except for use with Paste or related packages
> > (Pylons, etc).  I'm not sure what to do about that, except perhaps to
> > reset people's opinions with this rewrite.
> Well, this touches a nerve with me.  I have a similar problem with
> people rejecting out of hand anything that happens to live in the
> zope or even the zc namespace.  Similarly, at PyCon, I try to always
> give at least talk that I think will be generally interesting to the
> Python community at large, yet many people tend to assume that these
> are Zope specific.  I think this behavior is extremely unhealthy for
> the Python community.  Paste deploy is the only effort I've seen to
> provided a much-needed glue layer for WSGI.  It doesn't matter one
> bit to me what it's called.  It tries to fill a basic need.  Now I'm
> all for competition.  If someone really wanted to come up with
> something better, then I wouldn't mind seeing someone try, but
> nothing else is happening AFAICT.  I certainly have other things I
> want to work on.  Paste Deploy is a really good start and, FWIW, the
> Zope community is embracing it.
> Jim
> --
> Jim Fulton                      mailto:jim at zope.com             Python Powered!
> CTO                             (540) 361-1714                  http://www.python.org
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