From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Wed Feb 1 18:33:01 2006
From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 17:33:01 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Yet another quick reference guide URL
Message-ID: <200602011733.01020.mpfaiffer@callapple.org>
It's a big one...
Later
Mike
http://rgruet.free.fr/PQR24/PQR2.4.html
--
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org |
| http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK -----
Version: 3.12
GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+
PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++
------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------
From stuartw at mts.net Mon Feb 13 11:55:10 2006
From: stuartw at mts.net (Stuart Williams)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:55:10 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Who wants to present next Wednesday?
Message-ID: <17392.47598.997078.346856@localhost.localdomain>
Our scheduled presenter for next Wednesday's (February 22nd) meeting
has had to cancel. Would anyone (or two) like to fill in with a short
presentation (or two)?
Stuart.
From umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca Tue Feb 14 01:45:24 2006
From: umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca (Mark Jenkins)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 00:45:24 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Who wants to present next Wednesday?
In-Reply-To: <17392.47598.997078.346856@localhost.localdomain>
References: <17392.47598.997078.346856@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <43F17C84.3050209@cc.umanitoba.ca>
> Would anyone (or two) like to fill in with a short
> presentation (or two)?
I'll show off some code. Could also demo list comprehension too.
Mark
Apologies to Stuart for him seeing this reply twice. [I accidentally
rreplied to him only] We should change the default list reply-to to be
the list itself
From broek at cc.umanitoba.ca Tue Feb 14 07:46:46 2006
From: broek at cc.umanitoba.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 06:46:46 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] List reply to [WAS] Re: Who wants to present next
Wednesday?
In-Reply-To: <43F17C84.3050209@cc.umanitoba.ca>
References: <17392.47598.997078.346856@localhost.localdomain>
<43F17C84.3050209@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <43F1D136.8050304@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Mark Jenkins said unto the world upon 14/02/06 12:45 AM:
> Apologies to Stuart for him seeing this reply twice. [I accidentally
> rreplied to him only] We should change the default list reply-to to be
> the list itself
Hi all,
I'd favour leaving it as is, on the grounds of principle of least
damage. See <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>. I do
recognize this comes perilously close to a religious issue, though.
Best to all,
Brian vdB
From umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca Tue Feb 14 18:12:28 2006
From: umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca (Mark Jenkins)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:12:28 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] List reply to
In-Reply-To: <43F1D136.8050304@cc.umanitoba.ca>
References: <17392.47598.997078.346856@localhost.localdomain> <43F17C84.3050209@cc.umanitoba.ca>
<43F1D136.8050304@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <43F263DC.6050201@cc.umanitoba.ca>
> See <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>.
I'm sold. All this time I've been using a mail client that made this
easy for me, and didn't even realize it. Thunderbird has a Reply All
action. I see that it does a To: to the person being directly replied
to, and a cc to the list. I guess the list will see this and not send
Brian this message twice, correct? I can make Thunderbird do the right
thing if a To: winnipeg at python.org is the right thing. (because it's
free software!)
I have made the mistake of going public when private would of been
preferred. Good to be explicit in this choice each time.
Mark
From broek at cc.umanitoba.ca Wed Feb 15 04:40:13 2006
From: broek at cc.umanitoba.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 03:40:13 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] List reply to
In-Reply-To: <43F263DC.6050201@cc.umanitoba.ca>
References: <17392.47598.997078.346856@localhost.localdomain> <43F17C84.3050209@cc.umanitoba.ca>
<43F1D136.8050304@cc.umanitoba.ca>
<43F263DC.6050201@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <43F2F6FD.5050907@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Mark Jenkins said unto the world upon 14/02/06 05:12 PM:
>>See <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>.
>
>
> I'm sold.
No fair. I'd been looking forward to rounds of senseless bickering
followed by an extended period of bitter acrimony.
> I guess the list will see this and not send
> Brian this message twice, correct?
IIRC, that I got a single copy is a function of how I've set my
python.org mailinglist preferences. I am on some other lists with list
admin software less good than mailman and where there is no option to
avoid dups.
Best,
Brian vdB
From umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca Tue Feb 21 06:36:19 2006
From: umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca (Mark Jenkins)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:36:19 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Wednesday February 22, 7:30 meeting
Message-ID: <43FAFB33.6020101@cc.umanitoba.ca>
I'm the presenter Wednesday.
I will open the meeting with an explanation and demonstration of a
powerful feature called list comprehensions.
http://docs.python.org/tut/node7.html#SECTION007140000000000000000
I will show how one could rewrite a list comprehension if the feature
was unavailable, this will help illustrate the meaning of the syntax.
After that, I will dive into my code archive and demonstrate code I have
written in my first year as a python programmer.
I will go through n out of 3 programs, the size of n depending on
audience preference and time. The audience will determine the order.
* An academic B plus tree implementation. (I did this as a course
assignment)
* Two sudoku solvers, one dramatically more efficient than the other
* A program to determine when to hold a meeting based on individual time
preferences. I submitted this to the list in the past when we were
trying to determine a meeting time. Stewart, I never found out if you
used this or not.
From stuartw at mts.net Tue Feb 21 09:33:36 2006
From: stuartw at mts.net (Stuart Williams)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 08:33:36 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Wednesday February 22, 7:30 meeting
In-Reply-To: <43FAFB33.6020101@cc.umanitoba.ca>
References: <43FAFB33.6020101@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <17403.9408.863284.555970@localhost.localdomain>
>>>>> Mark Jenkins writes:
> Subject: [Python Wpg] Wednesday February 22, 7:30 meeting
> * A program to determine when to hold a meeting based on individual
> time preferences. I submitted this to the list in the past when we
> were trying to determine a meeting time. Stewart, I never found out
> if you used this or not.
I did! It was handy.
I made a few changes for data entry.
First I changed this:
{
'day' : 'Tue',
'ofMonth' : (3,4),
'startTime' : '16:00',
'endTime' : '22:00'
},
to this:
dict(day = 'Tue', ofMonth = (3,4), startTime = '16:00', endTime = '22:00'),
Next I changed it to this even more compact easier to type format:
s = """
User Name
Tue 34 16:00 22:00
Wed 34 16:00 22:00
"""
which I parsed thusly:
for line in s.split('\n')[1:-1]: # drop first and last empties
if line.startswith(' '):
day, ofMonth, startTime, endTime = line.split()
ofMonth = tuple( [int(m) for m in tuple(ofMonth)] )
priorities_for_each_person.setdefault(name, []).append(
dict(day = day, ofMonth = ofMonth,
startTime = startTime, endTime = endTime))
else:
name = line.strip()
Stuart.
From umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca Tue Feb 21 09:39:06 2006
From: umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca (Mark Jenkins)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 08:39:06 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Wednesday February 22, 7:30 meeting
In-Reply-To: <17403.9408.863284.555970@localhost.localdomain>
References: <43FAFB33.6020101@cc.umanitoba.ca>
<17403.9408.863284.555970@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <43FB260A.9040005@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Do you still have a copy of the full source after your changes? Could I
get a copy for the meeting?
From broek at cc.umanitoba.ca Wed Feb 22 19:52:55 2006
From: broek at cc.umanitoba.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 18:52:55 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Wednesday February 22, 7:30 meeting
In-Reply-To: <43FAFB33.6020101@cc.umanitoba.ca>
References: <43FAFB33.6020101@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <43FD0767.40207@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Mark Jenkins said unto the world upon 21/02/06 05:36 AM:
> I'm the presenter Wednesday.
>
> I will open the meeting with an explanation and demonstration of a
> powerful feature called list comprehensions.
> http://docs.python.org/tut/node7.html#SECTION007140000000000000000
<snip>
Hi all,
I've come to the reluctant conclusion that I've got to stay home and
work. So, my regrets and a good meeting to all.
Brian vdB
From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Fri Feb 24 16:42:15 2006
From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:42:15 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Newbie question
Message-ID: <200602241542.15920.mpfaiffer@callapple.org>
I'm redoing an old public domain Apple// BASIC (text) game in Python and
submitting it as an article to the magazine in the .signature. I've been
working on it for a couple of weeks an hour at a time (it's a simple game).
It's a good way to learn the language. I've been following the tutorial and
for the most part I can get by experimenting with the examples. I'll admit my
technique leaves a lot to be desired (it's my first Python program - I'll
clean it up when it's working). With expectations suitably lowered, here is
my question...
I have a large list (2D array of single character strings) I want duplicated.
Assignment (a = b) copies the pointers and not the values. Rather than copy
the list item by item (which isn't out of the question), is there a simple
way I haven't seen yet to make a separate copy of the list? I'd like to
change one list but not the other.
FYI, I haven't quite got my head around the OO style of programming yet.
Hopefully this year I'll try something which gives me the spark of insight I
haven't got yet.
Later
Mike
--
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org |
| http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK -----
Version: 3.12
GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+
PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++
------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------
From dave at gabrielson.ca Fri Feb 24 16:59:32 2006
From: dave at gabrielson.ca (Dave Gabrielson)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:59:32 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <200602241542.15920.mpfaiffer@callapple.org>
References: <200602241542.15920.mpfaiffer@callapple.org>
Message-ID: <200602241559.32478.dave@gabrielson.ca>
This one can take some digging if you don't know about it.
I've been bit before, so I know about it:
import copy
a = copy.deepcopy(b)
will make new versions of everything contained by b for a.
--Dave.
On February 24, 2006 03:42 pm, Mike Pfaiffer wrote:
> I'm redoing an old public domain Apple// BASIC (text) game in Python and
> submitting it as an article to the magazine in the .signature. I've been
> working on it for a couple of weeks an hour at a time (it's a simple game).
> It's a good way to learn the language. I've been following the tutorial and
> for the most part I can get by experimenting with the examples. I'll admit
> my technique leaves a lot to be desired (it's my first Python program -
> I'll clean it up when it's working). With expectations suitably lowered,
> here is my question...
>
> I have a large list (2D array of single character strings) I want
> duplicated. Assignment (a = b) copies the pointers and not the values.
> Rather than copy the list item by item (which isn't out of the question),
> is there a simple way I haven't seen yet to make a separate copy of the
> list? I'd like to change one list but not the other.
>
> FYI, I haven't quite got my head around the OO style of programming yet.
> Hopefully this year I'll try something which gives me the spark of insight
> I haven't got yet.
>
> Later
> Mike
From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Fri Feb 24 19:03:15 2006
From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:03:15 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <200602241559.32478.dave@gabrielson.ca>
References: <200602241542.15920.mpfaiffer@callapple.org>
<200602241559.32478.dave@gabrielson.ca>
Message-ID: <200602241803.16288.mpfaiffer@callapple.org>
On February 24, 2006 03:59 pm, Dave Gabrielson wrote this amazing epistle:
> This one can take some digging if you don't know about it.
> I've been bit before, so I know about it:
>
> import copy
>
> a = copy.deepcopy(b)
>
> will make new versions of everything contained by b for a.
>
> --Dave.
Thanks. I didn't see anything appropriate in the language reference or
tutorial. I suspect it's one of those things I missed. I'll try it out in a
couple of hours (supper is almost ready).
It looks like one of those OOP things. Correct?
Later
Mike
> On February 24, 2006 03:42 pm, Mike Pfaiffer wrote:
> > I'm redoing an old public domain Apple// BASIC (text) game in Python and
> > submitting it as an article to the magazine in the .signature. I've been
> > working on it for a couple of weeks an hour at a time (it's a simple
> > game). It's a good way to learn the language. I've been following the
> > tutorial and for the most part I can get by experimenting with the
> > examples. I'll admit my technique leaves a lot to be desired (it's my
> > first Python program - I'll clean it up when it's working). With
> > expectations suitably lowered, here is my question...
> >
> > I have a large list (2D array of single character strings) I want
> > duplicated. Assignment (a = b) copies the pointers and not the values.
> > Rather than copy the list item by item (which isn't out of the question),
> > is there a simple way I haven't seen yet to make a separate copy of the
> > list? I'd like to change one list but not the other.
> >
> > FYI, I haven't quite got my head around the OO style of programming yet.
> > Hopefully this year I'll try something which gives me the spark of
> > insight I haven't got yet.
> >
> > Later
> > Mike
--
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org |
| http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK -----
Version: 3.12
GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+
PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++
------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------
From billreid at shaw.ca Fri Feb 24 22:17:17 2006
From: billreid at shaw.ca (Bill Reid)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:17:17 -0600
Subject: [Python Wpg] Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <200602241803.16288.mpfaiffer@callapple.org>
References: <200602241542.15920.mpfaiffer@callapple.org>
<200602241559.32478.dave@gabrielson.ca>
<200602241803.16288.mpfaiffer@callapple.org>
Message-ID: <43FFCC3D.2020409@shaw.ca>
Mike Pfaiffer wrote:
> On February 24, 2006 03:59 pm, Dave Gabrielson wrote this amazing epistle:
>> This one can take some digging if you don't know about it.
>> I've been bit before, so I know about it:
>>
>> import copy
>>
>> a = copy.deepcopy(b)
>
> Thanks. I didn't see anything appropriate in the language reference or
> tutorial. I suspect it's one of those things I missed. I'll try it out in a
> couple of hours (supper is almost ready).
>
> It looks like one of those OOP things. Correct?
>
I would not call it an OO thing. It is just that many languages do not copy
arrays by value since there is a big potential performance hit.
What I have found working with Perl, Python, Ruby, PHP, Tcl, VBasic... it is not
the language semantics and syntax that takes the longest to master. You of
course have to get your head around the "way" of programming in a specific language.
The real rub is the function libraries. For being productive the power is in the
libraries. It is a pleasure if a new language has at least keep the same names
for similar functions as older languages. For example Ruby sticks pretty close
to Perl names. Since the names are somewhat arbitrary I find it difficult to
keep track of which function goes with which language. Now is it index or instr,
etc.
That aside, Perl is a bit different since it embeds a lot of "functions" in syntax.
-- Bill
--