"Members" vs. "Subscribers"
This is a linguistic subtlety in the English version of Mailman.
Maliman refers to list subscribers as "members," for example when rejecting a post from a "non-member" to a "members-only" list. This terminology is confusing in some circumstances. Here's why.
I run lists for a professional, non-profit, organization which has dues-paying members. Not all paying members subscribe to all lists, and not all subscribers are paying members. If a dues-paying member has a posting rejected to what Mailman calls a "members-only" list, he will promptly complain to me that he is, in fact, a "member." And he's right. He's just not a *subscriber* to the list in question.
In my own Mailman 2.0.11 installation, I've scoured the sources for user-visible strings and changed "member" to "subscriber" everywhere I thought it was important. I would like to suggest this become an official terminology change for future versions of Mailman.
- Bob
On Tuesday 16 July 2002 11:09, Bob Weissman wrote:
This is a linguistic subtlety in the English version of Mailman. [...] In my own Mailman 2.0.11 installation, I've scoured the sources for user-visible strings and changed "member" to "subscriber" everywhere I thought it was important. I would like to suggest this become an official terminology change for future versions of Mailman.
I'd like to reinforce the point. When posts to my lists from dues-paying members are rejected because they are from "non-members" it raises some hackles. The distinction between a member of the organization and a subscriber to one of the organization's lists needs to be clear. I'm also eagerly awaiting the capability mentioned in a previous thread to summarily reject (or simply ignore) posts from non-subscribers to a subscribers-only list instead of requiring the list administrator to reject them.
Kyle
I'm certainly not brave enough to attempt to change it, but I have often been bothered by the terminology. Subscriber is the exact right word in this case, member or employee might be a good fit, but then again, they might not. I have lists in which member, employee, and stockholder would be appropriate, but I also have a couple of lists where subscriber is the only correct word, and it is correct in all cases.
So, I'll second the suggestion to globally change the terminology, but I don't want to get out my broadaxe and try it myself!
Van
Bob Weissman wrote:
This is a linguistic subtlety in the English version of Mailman.
Maliman refers to list subscribers as "members," for example when rejecting a post from a "non-member" to a "members-only" list. This terminology is confusing in some circumstances. Here's why.
I run lists for a professional, non-profit, organization which has dues-paying members. Not all paying members subscribe to all lists, and not all subscribers are paying members. If a dues-paying member has a posting rejected to what Mailman calls a "members-only" list, he will promptly complain to me that he is, in fact, a "member." And he's right. He's just not a *subscriber* to the list in question.
In my own Mailman 2.0.11 installation, I've scoured the sources for user-visible strings and changed "member" to "subscriber" everywhere I thought it was important. I would like to suggest this become an official terminology change for future versions of Mailman.
- Bob
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
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My web host provides a Mailman mailing list software. I would like to use it to provide direct subscription to a mailing list, as you see on many websites. You know, where you type in your e-mail, click a button, and you are then subscribed to a mailing list.
How is this done? I have seen it done with .php, but that is beyond me. Is there there a Perl program, or other program availble for this? Is there a hosting company which provides this feature for a reasonable fee? I have review much of Webmonkey and searched the Web without success. I would appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks, David
On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 05:06 AM, David Padilla wrote:
My web host provides a Mailman mailing list software. I would like to use it to provide direct subscription to a mailing list, as you see on many websites. You know, where you type in your e-mail, click a button, and you are then subscribed to a mailing list.
This is a very good way to get yourself )and your ISP) listed in every list of spammers known, and then some.
Bad bad bad bad bad idea. Some scumball starts hitting that page with millions of subscribe requests and then uses your list to deliver his spam. No thanks.
-- Conversations are so difficult. You risk changing yourself, admitting you were wrong, coming to appreciate the other person's perspective. -- Seventeen magazine
I should have been more clear. I want to create direct subscription to announcement only lists, similiar to those see ALL over the net. You know those, add your e-mail and become subscirbed to our next newletter, or anouncement, etc.
Thanks, david
-----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-admin@python.org [mailto:mailman-users-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of LuKreme Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 11:41 PM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: One Button Direct Subscription
On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 05:06 AM, David Padilla wrote:
My web host provides a Mailman mailing list software. I would like to use it to provide direct subscription to a mailing list, as you see on many websites. You know, where you type in your e-mail, click a button, and you are then subscribed to a mailing list.
This is a very good way to get yourself )and your ISP) listed in every list of spammers known, and then some.
Bad bad bad bad bad idea. Some scumball starts hitting that page with millions of subscribe requests and then uses your list to deliver his spam. No thanks.
-- Conversations are so difficult. You risk changing yourself, admitting you were wrong, coming to appreciate the other person's perspective. -- Seventeen magazine
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
David Padilla wrote:
I should have been more clear. I want to create direct subscription to announcement only lists, similiar to those see ALL over the net. You know those, add your e-mail and become subscirbed to our next newletter, or anouncement, etc.
Well in any event, you should confirm the subscription; otherwise anyone can subscribe anyone else to your list.
This is known as confirmed opt-in, and if you don't use a system like this, you're very likely to get booted by your ISP for spamming.
-- Will Yardley input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >
Hi Will,
That is not entirely true. Sometimes you already have the person authenticated via another fashion (think: online banking software), and all that you want to do is have the user subscribe for banking notices by pressing one button.
-Jim P.
-----Original Message----- From: Will Yardley Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:11 AM
Well in any event, you should confirm the subscription; otherwise anyone can subscribe anyone else to your list.
This is known as confirmed opt-in, and if you don't use a system like this, you're very likely to get booted by your ISP for spamming.
-- Will Yardley input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >
Yes, indeed this is the situation I am also in. I have an application, somewhat like SourceForge, where we embed Mailman as the list manager. The user is already logged in to the main application, and we know the user's email address, etc. So, its not very nice to have: (1) separate passwords for each mailing list, and (2) require the user to type in their identity and password for subscription, options editing, and un-subscribe requests.
I'm in the process of changing some of the Cgi scripts and making a few changes to Mailman 2.0.9 to remove these aspects for an already authenticated user.
If others are interested, I can put a patch together with the latest Mailman code.
Regards
Pankaj
-----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-admin@python.org [mailto:mailman-users-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of Jim Popovitch Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:24 AM To: Will Yardley; mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Re: Re: One Button Direct Subscription
Hi Will,
That is not entirely true. Sometimes you already have the person authenticated via another fashion (think: online banking software), and all that you want to do is have the user subscribe for banking notices by pressing one button.
-Jim P.
-----Original Message----- From: Will Yardley Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:11 AM
Well in any event, you should confirm the subscription; otherwise anyone can subscribe anyone else to your list.
This is known as confirmed opt-in, and if you don't use a system like this, you're very likely to get booted by your ISP for spamming.
-- Will Yardley input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
participants (8)
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Bob Weissman -
David Padilla -
G. Armour Van Horn -
Jim Popovitch -
Kyle Rhorer -
LuKreme -
Pankaj K Garg -
william+mm＠hq.newdream.net