Hello,
Is there a way to change the sender of mail (i.e. mailman-user-bounce) with something more humain like : The Mailman User list <mailman-users@python.org) ?
Or must I do it by canonical rewriting ?
Cedric
At 4:54 PM +0200 2004/05/11, cedric gross wrote:
Is there a way to change the sender of mail (i.e. mailman-user-bounce) with something more humain like : The Mailman User list <mailman-users@python.org) ?
You can go throughout the Mailman code and change listname-bounces to whatever you want, but this is not recommended.
Bounces will actually come back to this address, so whatever you do, you have to be able to distinguish between bounces and original submissions. But if you had a violent opposition to the string "-bounces" appearing anywhere, you could change this to be "-fred" or whatever else you may want.
Or must I do it by canonical rewriting ?
That would be an extremely bad idea. You would be destroying vital information encoded in the envelope sender address, which could not be recovered once a bounce occurred.
See Mailman FAQ 2.2 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.002.htp> and FAW 2.3 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
Right near the end of
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp
you will find details of a hack to the MM source code for MM 2.1.x
which changes the Sender: header value from listname-bounces to
listname, while leaving the envelope sender as listname-bounces for
bounce handling. The line number referenced in the FAQ is approximate;
depending on what exact version of MM 2.1.x source you are running you
may find the line to be changed a few either way of the one stipulated.
This is an attempt to alleviate the pain that some users (and list
admins) appear to experience with the conflation of From: and Sender:
headers in the displayed From field of the web GUI of some versions of
some Microsoft MUAs. If that is your problem, this hack might help.
With well behaved MTAs that send bounce messages back to the envelope
sender this change should be safe but if it blows up in your face
because a badly behaved MTA sends a bounce back to the Sender header,
which is now the primary list address, and hence to the list itself, it
is on your head; you have been warned.
That said, the change is one-line-simple and easy to reverse if things
start to go pear shaped.
On 11 May 2004, at 16:17, Brad Knowles wrote:
At 4:54 PM +0200 2004/05/11, cedric gross wrote:
Is there a way to change the sender of mail (i.e.
mailman-user-bounce) with something more humain like : The Mailman User list <mailman-users@python.org) ?You can go throughout the Mailman code and change listname-bounces to
whatever you want, but this is not recommended.Bounces will actually come back to this address, so whatever you do,
you have to be able to distinguish between bounces and original
submissions. But if you had a violent opposition to the string
"-bounces" appearing anywhere, you could change this to be "-fred" or
whatever else you may want.Or must I do it by canonical rewriting ?
That would be an extremely bad idea. You would be destroying vital
information encoded in the envelope sender address, which could not be
recovered once a bounce occurred.See Mailman FAQ 2.2 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.002.htp>
and FAW 2.3 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
I'm going to ask why it is there at all? I just checked over 50 messages and the only ones I have with the Sender and the Errors headers are those from Mailman. If there are to be RFC compliant - why does no one else have them? (Errors I am guessing are for Mailman - but since it does not read that line...)
(Even my tech bulletins from Microsoft, Apple and Symantec do not have them.)
From: Richard Barrett <r.barrett@openinfo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Sender modification Date sent: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:17:23 +0100 To: cgross@2blc.com Copies to: Mailman-Users@python.org
Right near the end of
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp
you will find details of a hack to the MM source code for MM 2.1.x
which changes the Sender: header value from listname-bounces to
listname, while leaving the envelope sender as listname-bounces for
bounce handling. The line number referenced in the FAQ is approximate;
depending on what exact version of MM 2.1.x source you are running you
may find the line to be changed a few either way of the one stipulated.This is an attempt to alleviate the pain that some users (and list
admins) appear to experience with the conflation of From: and Sender:
headers in the displayed From field of the web GUI of some versions of
some Microsoft MUAs. If that is your problem, this hack might help.With well behaved MTAs that send bounce messages back to the envelope
sender this change should be safe but if it blows up in your face
because a badly behaved MTA sends a bounce back to the Sender header,
which is now the primary list address, and hence to the list itself, it
is on your head; you have been warned.That said, the change is one-line-simple and easy to reverse if things
start to go pear shaped.On 11 May 2004, at 16:17, Brad Knowles wrote:
At 4:54 PM +0200 2004/05/11, cedric gross wrote:
Is there a way to change the sender of mail (i.e.
mailman-user-bounce) with something more humain like : The Mailman User list <mailman-users@python.org) ?You can go throughout the Mailman code and change listname-bounces to
whatever you want, but this is not recommended.Bounces will actually come back to this address, so whatever you do,
you have to be able to distinguish between bounces and original
submissions. But if you had a violent opposition to the string
"-bounces" appearing anywhere, you could change this to be "-fred" or
whatever else you may want.Or must I do it by canonical rewriting ?
That would be an extremely bad idea. You would be destroying vital
information encoded in the envelope sender address, which could not be
recovered once a bounce occurred.See Mailman FAQ 2.2 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.002.htp>
and FAW 2.3 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Thanks.
Lloyd F. Tennison lloyd_tennison@whoever.com
No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.
On 12 May 2004, at 02:48, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:
I'm going to ask why it is there at all?
Look under head "3.6.2. Originator fields" of RFC 2822. The relevant
portion says:
<quote> The "Sender:" field specifies the mailbox of the agent responsible for the actual transmission of the message. For example, if a secretary were to send a message for another person, the mailbox of the secretary would appear in the "Sender:" field and the mailbox of the actual author would appear in the "From:" field. If the originator of the message can be indicated by a single mailbox and the author and transmitter are identical, the "Sender:" field SHOULD NOT be used. Otherwise, both fields SHOULD appear. </quote>
View Mailman as being the secretary distributing a message for the
actual message originator. Mailman is never the true originator of a
posted message it is normally distributing.
In the usual circumstance, the the originator's address goes in the
From: and the listname-bounces address (or listname address with the
hack suggested) _should_ go in the Sender: in order to be RFC
compliant.
I just checked over 50 messages and the only ones I have with the Sender and the Errors headers are those from Mailman. If there are to be RFC compliant - why does no one else have them? (Errors I am guessing are for Mailman - but since it does not read that line...)
(Even my tech bulletins from Microsoft, Apple and Symantec do not have them.)
No comment about selected originators or methodology. What are you
trying to prove; no do not answer that I was just being rhetorical.
From: Richard Barrett <r.barrett@openinfo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Sender modification Date sent: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:17:23 +0100 To: cgross@2blc.com Copies to: Mailman-Users@python.org
Right near the end of http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp you will find details of a hack to the MM source code for MM 2.1.x which changes the Sender: header value from listname-bounces to listname, while leaving the envelope sender as listname-bounces for bounce handling. The line number referenced in the FAQ is approximate; depending on what exact version of MM 2.1.x source you are running you may find the line to be changed a few either way of the one
stipulated.This is an attempt to alleviate the pain that some users (and list admins) appear to experience with the conflation of From: and Sender: headers in the displayed From field of the web GUI of some versions of some Microsoft MUAs. If that is your problem, this hack might help.
With well behaved MTAs that send bounce messages back to the envelope sender this change should be safe but if it blows up in your face because a badly behaved MTA sends a bounce back to the Sender header, which is now the primary list address, and hence to the list itself,
it is on your head; you have been warned.That said, the change is one-line-simple and easy to reverse if things start to go pear shaped.
On 11 May 2004, at 16:17, Brad Knowles wrote:
At 4:54 PM +0200 2004/05/11, cedric gross wrote:
Is there a way to change the sender of mail (i.e. mailman-user-bounce) with something more humain like : The Mailman User list <mailman-users@python.org) ?
You can go throughout the Mailman code and change listname-bounces
to whatever you want, but this is not recommended.Bounces will actually come back to this address, so whatever you do, you have to be able to distinguish between bounces and original submissions. But if you had a violent opposition to the string "-bounces" appearing anywhere, you could change this to be "-fred" or whatever else you may want.
Or must I do it by canonical rewriting ?
That would be an extremely bad idea. You would be destroying vital information encoded in the envelope sender address, which could not
be recovered once a bounce occurred.See Mailman FAQ 2.2 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? req=show&file=faq02.002.htp> and FAW 2.3 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
Lloyd F. Tennison wrote on Tue, 11 May 2004 18:48:12 -0700:
Sender and the Errors
Sender is widely in use. Don't know what you mean by Errors.
Kai
--
Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: http://www.conactive.com IE-Center: http://ie5.de & http://msie.winware.org
On 12 May 2004, at 12:31, Kai Schaetzl wrote:
Lloyd F. Tennison wrote on Tue, 11 May 2004 18:48:12 -0700:
Sender and the Errors
Sender is widely in use. Don't know what you mean by Errors.
I think he was referring to the Errors-to: header which MM inserts. Not an RFC mandated header and deprecated (see http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2076.txt) by IETF but used, I believe, for backwards compatibility with older MTAs which might use this header as the destination for bounce notices rather than the SMTP envelope sender.
Kai
--
Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: http://www.conactive.com IE-Center: http://ie5.de & http://msie.winware.org
participants (5)
-
Brad Knowles -
cedric gross -
Kai Schaetzl -
Lloyd F. Tennison -
Richard Barrett