Poll: Do you like the PEP 572 Assignment Expressions?
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
The poll will end next Tuesday, May 8, the day before the Language Summit.
I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in February) :-)
Note: Obviously, it's just a poll, not a vote. Guido van Rossum is the one who will pronounce himself on the PEP, to accept to reject it, so the only one allowed to vote ;-)
Victor
-1: dislike
( my rationale: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-April/152991.html )
Victor
-1: dislike
Regards
Antoine.
Le 02/05/2018 à 11:49, Victor Stinner a écrit :
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
The poll will end next Tuesday, May 8, the day before the Language Summit.
I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in February) :-)
Note: Obviously, it's just a poll, not a vote. Guido van Rossum is the one who will pronounce himself on the PEP, to accept to reject it, so the only one allowed to vote ;-)
Victor
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
On 2 May 2018 at 10:49, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
Do we really need this spilling over into yet another mailing list? Paul
2018-05-02 11:56 GMT+02:00 Paul Moore p.f.moore@gmail.com:
On 2 May 2018 at 10:49, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
Do we really need this spilling over into yet another mailing list?
I already saw polls on Twitter, but I don't know if I should trust Twitter polls because of the filter bubble. Moreover, this poll is restricted to core developers, so it's different.
There will be a session about the PEP 572 next week at the Language Summit, but I'm afraid that the session may go in all directions since I didn't see any explicit agenda nor moderator yet:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-April/153250.html
I would prefer to prepare the session to be more efficient. I also care of other topics discussed the Language Summit.
The poll is also for the ones who will not be able to attend the Language Summit.
By the way, the list of sessions is not available yet, Larry/Barry?
https://us.pycon.org/2018/events/language-summit/
Victor
I'd very much like the feature, but not sure that the proposed change is a good fit today.
-Rob
On 2 May 2018 at 22:13, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
2018-05-02 11:56 GMT+02:00 Paul Moore p.f.moore@gmail.com:
On 2 May 2018 at 10:49, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
Do we really need this spilling over into yet another mailing list?
I already saw polls on Twitter, but I don't know if I should trust Twitter polls because of the filter bubble. Moreover, this poll is restricted to core developers, so it's different.
There will be a session about the PEP 572 next week at the Language Summit, but I'm afraid that the session may go in all directions since I didn't see any explicit agenda nor moderator yet:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-April/153250.html
I would prefer to prepare the session to be more efficient. I also care of other topics discussed the Language Summit.
The poll is also for the ones who will not be able to attend the Language Summit.
By the way, the list of sessions is not available yet, Larry/Barry?
https://us.pycon.org/2018/events/language-summit/
Victor
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
0: I will use it if it's accepted, but I'm not sure it's merit is enough for changing how Python code looks.
0: this might be a handy feature, but I am not sure the dangers it introduces are adequate for the problem it solves.
-- Ivan
On 2 May 2018 at 11:06, INADA Naoki songofacandy@gmail.com wrote:
0: I will use it if it's accepted, but I'm not sure it's merit is enough for changing how Python code looks.
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
-1 (I'd vote +1 if it was fully backwards-compatible.)
--Berker
2018-05-02 11:49 GMT+02:00 Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com:
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
FYI if you want don't to spam python-committers list, you may reply to me in private. I will publish poll results at the end of the poll.
Victor
-1 in the current form, since an expression such as
[y := f(x), x/y] ...is confusing (I'd read this as [y := (f(x), x/y)]
Using explicit parens around it would resolve this issue:
[(y := f(x)), x/y] ...but even with that, I'm not excited about the additional line noise this adds - there's a reason why we have for-loops in the language after all, explicit is better than having to look thrice, etc. etc. :-)
Cheers,
Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com
Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, May 02 2018)
Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ Python Database Interfaces ... http://products.egenix.com/ Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ... http://zope.egenix.com/
::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::
eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ http://www.malemburg.com/
On 02.05.2018 11:49, Victor Stinner wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
The poll will end next Tuesday, May 8, the day before the Language Summit.
I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in February) :-)
Note: Obviously, it's just a poll, not a vote. Guido van Rossum is the one who will pronounce himself on the PEP, to accept to reject it, so the only one allowed to vote ;-)
Victor
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
On 2 May 2018 at 19:49, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
-1 from me (on "too much pain for not enough gain" grounds).
Regards, Nick.
P.S. I quite liked the initial "expr as name" version with subscopes, but those aspects were changed based on reasonable concerns raised on python-ideas, and I think the discussion of the simplified proposal on python-dev has also raised sufficient further concerns to push the whole concept back into python-ideas territory. (I do think the discussions have clarified the nature of the cases where the current lack of any form of inline binding support can be genuinely irritating, though)
-- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 3:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
-1
...and thanks for specifically asking for no elaboration. I was tempted. :)
-eric
-1 On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 10:02 AM Eric Snow ericsnowcurrently@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 3:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
-1
...and thanks for specifically asking for no elaboration. I was tempted. :)
-eric
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- Yury
+1
On 2 May, 2018, at 10:49, Victor Stinner
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
-1
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 5:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
The poll will end next Tuesday, May 8, the day before the Language Summit.
I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in February) :-)
Note: Obviously, it's just a poll, not a vote. Guido van Rossum is the one who will pronounce himself on the PEP, to accept to reject it, so the only one allowed to vote ;-)
Victor
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-1
-- Best regards, Łukasz Langa
On May 2, 2018, at 2:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
The poll will end next Tuesday, May 8, the day before the Language Summit.
I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in February) :-)
Note: Obviously, it's just a poll, not a vote. Guido van Rossum is the one who will pronounce himself on the PEP, to accept to reject it, so the only one allowed to vote ;-)
Victor
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-1
-Stefan
On May 2, 2018, at 2:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
The poll will end next Tuesday, May 8, the day before the Language Summit.
I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in February) :-)
Note: Obviously, it's just a poll, not a vote. Guido van Rossum is the one who will pronounce himself on the PEP, to accept to reject it, so the only one allowed to vote ;-)
Victor
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
02.05.18 12:49, Victor Stinner пише:
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
-1: dislike
I will not use it if it's accepted, and likely will not make reviews of patches that use it.
On 5/2/2018 5:49 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:
You asked two different questions, hence two answers.
- The title asks "Do I like the PEP 572 Assignment Expressions"? Yes, at least +.5, and if forced, I might well round up to 1.
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- However, the PEP itself also contains an only loosely related and inadequately discussed proposal to change comprehension scoping semantics (I presume before we are done with 2.7) and possibly break existing code without a deprecation period. I think all 3 aspects of this are wrong. Hence I am -1 on this part of the PEP and the PEP as a whole.
I think some, but not all, of other answers are influenced by which version of the question a person is answering.
TJR
-1: dislike
On May 2, 2018, at 2:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
On 2018-05-02 11:49, Victor Stinner wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
-1
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
-1
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 10:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
-1
-1, I think, though I'm frustrated that in the parts of the list discussion I had energy to read, its proponents seemed to be saying that the most compelling examples aren't actually in the PEP (and I don't know what they are).
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
The poll will end next Tuesday, May 8, the day before the Language Summit.
I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in February) :-)
Note: Obviously, it's just a poll, not a vote. Guido van Rossum is the one who will pronounce himself on the PEP, to accept to reject it, so the only one allowed to vote ;-)
Victor
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org
-1 as currently proposed, +0 on Tim’s more bounded approach from the mailing list
On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 4:38 AM Nathaniel Smith njs@pobox.com wrote:
-1, I think, though I'm frustrated that in the parts of the list discussion I had energy to read, its proponents seemed to be saying that the most compelling examples aren't actually in the PEP (and I don't know what they are).
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-)
Just reply to this email with "+1", "0", "-1". Please don't elaborate here, it's just a quick poll, use python-dev if you want to talk :-)
The poll will end next Tuesday, May 8, the day before the Language Summit.
I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in February) :-)
Note: Obviously, it's just a poll, not a vote. Guido van Rossum is the one who will pronounce himself on the PEP, to accept to reject it, so the only one allowed to vote ;-)
Victor
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- *Carol Willing*
Research Software Engineer Project Jupyter at Cal Poly SLO
cawillin@calpoly.edu
*Signature strengths* *Empathy - Relator - Ideation - Strategic - Learner*
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0572/
The poll is on the *current* PEP. I propose 4 choices:
- +1: you like the PEP
- -1: you dislike the PEP
- 0: you are not sure if you like it or not, or you have no opinon
- don't reply to this poll :-) -1
Kushal
Staff, Freedom of the Press Foundation CPython Core Developer Director, Python Software Foundation https://kushaldas.in
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 3:49 AM, Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in February) :-)
FWIW, contrary to the many -1 responses, I don't think the actual sentiment is all torches-and-pitchforks. :) There are a variety of well-reasoned opinions that mostly result in "meh" and "I don't like the idea of it but don't know how it will actually work out" (or maybe I'm just projecting myself onto everyone else). This is the point where I have a lot of respect for Guido's uncanny intuition as reflected in Python's history.
-eric
-1.
Registering my vote. I studied only the PEP and didn't follow the debate/discussion.
-1
On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 12:45 AM Senthil Kumaran senthil@uthcode.com wrote:
-1.
Registering my vote. I studied only the PEP and didn't follow the debate/discussion.
python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-- Thanks, Andrew Svetlov
On Wed, May 02, 2018 at 11:49:36AM +0200, Victor Stinner wrote:
Hi,
I would like to start a poll on Chris Angelico's PEP 572 "Assignment Expressions", restricted to Python core developers, to prepare the talk at the Language Summit:
With the changes suggested by Guido, +1
(I've track of where the PEP itself is, and whether or not it includes the new suggestions.)
-- Steve
participants (33)
-
Alexander Belopolsky -
Andrew Svetlov -
Antoine Pitrou -
Berker Peksağ -
Carol Willing -
Christian Heimes -
Eric Snow -
Ethan Furman -
Gregory P. Smith -
INADA Naoki -
Ivan Levkivskyi -
Jason R. Coombs -
Julien Palard -
Kushal Das -
Larry Hastings -
M.-A. Lemburg -
Mark Dickinson -
Nathaniel Smith -
Nick Coghlan -
Paul Moore -
Raymond Hettinger -
Robert Collins -
Senthil Kumaran -
Serhiy Storchaka -
Stefan Krah -
Stefan Richthofer -
Steve Dower -
Steven D'Aprano -
Terry Reedy -
Tim Peters -
Victor Stinner -
Yury Selivanov -
Łukasz Langa