[BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py

[Daniel Greenfeld]

As a PSF member I'm going to delurk right now. That's because as an
admirer/supporter of the India Python community, I'm rather shocked and
saddened by this thread.

The PSF and pyladies have been affiliated for quite some time, arguably
years at this point. In fact, the PSF has provided thousands, perhaps ten
of thousands of dollars of support for PyLadies. In addition, PyLadies was
co-founded by an Indian-American (Audrey Roy), so one can argue that the
qualities that make up the group were influenced by her Indian heritage.

The mission as described at http://www.pyladies.com/about/ but I'll
summarize here:

  [pladies is]...a group of women developers worldwide who love the Python
programming language. We write
  code by day or night. Some of us hack on Python projects on the side,
while others work full-time on Python
  development. But it doesn't matter. We all just like writing Python code,
and that's what brings us together.

As he admits, Anand Pillai has never raised any issues about Pyladies in
the PSF members mailing list or any other venues except for his now deleted
GitHub repo, this thread, and a previous one. Like myself and other PSF
members, there have been and are numerous opportunities and occasions to
discuss PyLadies in official channels to which he has ready access.

Rather than argue in one direction or another, I wonder how Anand (and
everyone on this list) would feel if I created a similar github repo, this
one in regards to the entire Python community of India. Imagine those same
code structures in regards to India.  Imagine if I used all of his emailed
arguments in the defense of my code and "humor".

How would the readers of this list feel?

Angry. Furious. Demanding of real apologies.

Svashka is standing up for what's right. I'm behind what she says 100%.


On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Anand B Pillai <anandpillai at letterboxes.org>
wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi,
>
> On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai
> > <anandpillai at letterboxes.org> wrote:
> >> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions"
> >> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat
> >> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF
> >> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI.
> >
> > So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF
> > member and PSSI president.
>
> I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person
> who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean.
> I like to break stereotypes.
>
> Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds
> best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position
> resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective.
>
> See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so
> the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's
> view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead
> of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats
> again and again.
>
> This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person
> to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It
> possibly just means either people are shutting you out or
> they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just
> indifferent.
>
> >
> >> curious. Maybe the OP of this thread who is an active member
> >
> > I may be the OP but I am not the founder, rather just a member who
> > setup the mailman list as I disliked the meetup.com communication
> > tool and dislike googlegroups even more.
> >
> >
> >> of PyLadies could explain it  - just to educate all of us here
> >> and me in particlar.
> >
> > I hope Anu's email was explanation enough.
>
> Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure
> what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups.
>
> >
> >> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically
> >> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target.
> >
> > Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The
> > "if apology" not withstanding.
> >
> >> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list
> >> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as
> >> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic
> >
> > You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF
> > when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm
> > curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter.
>
> No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep
> track of these things regularly. However since the local
> chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been
> thinking more about it.
>
> Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything
> and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There
> are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future
> date - let me say this was one of it.
>
> >> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman
> >> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding".
> >
> > I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too.
>
> I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue
> more of politics than technology and society, I may not.
>
> But I might as well - I don't know at this point.
>
> >
> > -svaksha _______________________________________________ BangPypers
> > mailing list BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
> - --
> Regards,
>
> - --Anand
>
> -
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Software Architect/Consultant
> anandpillai at letterboxes.org
>
> Please note my updated email address <anandpillai at letterboxes.org>.
> Kindly update your address books.
>
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--
'Knowledge is Power'
Daniel Greenfeld
Principal at Cartwheel Web; co-author of Two Scoops of Django
cartwheelweb.com | pydanny.com | django.2scoops.org