[Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open questions on python-dev)

[Jim Fulton]

On Jul 11, 2009, at 7:04 AM, David Lyon wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:54:53 -0400, Jim Fulton <jim at zope.com> wrote:
>> This is really off topic.  I'll reply but I'll switch the list to  
>> web-
>> sig.
>
>>>
>>> Why is there so many problems with python hosting? What I mean
>>> is that any linux host that can run python should be able to
>>> do web hosting easily. Say like run zope/plone.
>>>
>>> Is this due to difficulties in getting packages onto a web host?
>>>
>>> What could be done in an ideal world to make it a snap to
>>> run zope on my cheapy linux web hosting service (that already
>>> has python)?
>
> No it is not OT. It's totally on-topic...
>
> I'm asking how an application developer using a cheapy web hosting
> plan (who cannot run setup.py)... could do a package installation.
>
> Therefore, allowing "setup.py needs to go away"
>
> I can't keep on-topic anymore than that...
>
> It is a valid question...


Well, I think it's still better asked over on web-sig, as I don't  
*think* it's primarily a packaging question.  I'll try to make a more  
packaging-centric reply here. A major problem with the low cost  
providers is that you don't get a shell prompt, so you can't use any  
packaging tools.  More importantly, you can't run long-running  
processes.

Lots of people are being drawn to Google App Engine.  It also doesn't  
give you a shell prompt, but it has a tool for uploading software that  
then runs in long-running processes.  There are packaging tools that  
let you assemble software in the needed format on your server for  
upload to GAE.  For example:

   http://pypi.python.org/pypi/rod.recipe.appengine

Of course, lots of relatively inexpensive co-lo providers give you a  
VM that it's straightforward, I asume, to install Python web  
applications on.

Jim

--
Jim Fulton
Zope Corporation