[Distutils] [Python-Dev] Bootstrap script for package management tool in Python 2.7 (Was: Re: At least one package management tool for 2.7)

anatoly techtonik techtonik at gmail.com
Mon Mar 29 16:21:39 CEST 2010

2010/3/29 Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com>:
> anatoly techtonik wrote:
>> So, there won't be any package management tool shipped with Python 2.7
>> and users will have to download and install `setuptools` manually as
>> before:
> Until the discussed package management tools support a robust inventory
> and uninstallation system that plays well with directly installed Python
> packages, you won't find widespread support on python-dev for endorsing
> any of them.

This wasn't the question, but the summary. I would greatly appreciate
if you could provide your feedback on the second part of my letter
that started with "Therefore..."

> Yes, the people who use them love them for good and valid reasons, but
> those who absolutely detest them also do so for good and valid reasons.
> While this is still the case, it would be highly inappropriate for
> python-dev to include bootstrap scripts that direct users to these

Scripts do not _direct_ users - they _help_ users, already directed by
some installation instruction or tutorial, to find and install package
management system they are _trying_ to use.

> The distutils2 work and the various metadata PEPs that have been
> approved recently are all about addressing those limitations in the
> infrastructure. With those in place and flowing through the Python
> package management ecosystem, bootstrapping interoperable package
> management tools is likely to become a reasonable option in the future.

Bootstrap tools evolve together with packaging situation. You may
deprecate package management tool in your future bootstrap scripts if
it is "incompatible" with this Python release. It is just user message
that is a flexible as the mind of its author.

> But we aren't there yet, and won't be for 2.7 or 3.2. From an outsider's
> perspective, the 3.3 time frame appears to be very possible though.

Just a thought about user story my customers would likely write if I
shipped Python as a product:
"As a user, I think Python is suxx, because it makes its users suffer
for a long time from packaging disorder".

anatoly t.

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