[Distutils] PEP 439 and pip bootstrap updated

Vinay Sajip vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk
Fri Jul 12 10:35:37 CEST 2013

Donald Stufft <donald <at> stufft.io> writes:

> We should remember that in general people have considered PyEnv that ships
> with Python 3.3 an inferior alternative to virtualenv largely in part
> because they have to fetch setuptools and pip prior to using it whereas in
> virtualenv they do not.

Let's remember, that's a consequence of packaging being pulled from 3.3 - the
original plan was to have the ability to install stuff in venvs without third-
party software being necessary.

There is no real barrier to using setuptools/pip with Python 3.3+ venvs: For
example, I published the pyvenvex.py script which creates venvs and installs
setuptools and pip in a single step:


Admittedly it's "only a Gist" and not especially publicised to the wider
community, but that could be addressed.

The current situation, as I see it, is a transitional one. When distlib-like
functionality becomes available in the stdlib, other approaches will be
possible, which improve upon what's possible with setuptools and pip. I've
demonstrated some of this using distil. When targeting Python 3.4, shouldn't
we be looking further than just advancing the status quo a little bit?

It's been said numerous times that "executable setup.py" must go. ISTM that,
notwithstanding "practicality beats purity", a pip bootstrap in Python
would bless executable setup.py and help to extend its lifespan.


Vinay Sajip

More information about the Distutils-SIG mailing list