[Distutils] PEP 439 and pip bootstrap updated

Nick Coghlan ncoghlan at gmail.com
Fri Jul 12 15:22:41 CEST 2013

On 12 Jul 2013 18:36, "Vinay Sajip" <vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Donald Stufft <donald <at> stufft.io> writes:
> > We should remember that in general people have considered PyEnv that
> > with Python 3.3 an inferior alternative to virtualenv largely in part
> > because they have to fetch setuptools and pip prior to using it whereas
> > virtualenv they do not.
> Let's remember, that's a consequence of packaging being pulled from 3.3 -
> original plan was to have the ability to install stuff in venvs without
> party software being necessary.
> There is no real barrier to using setuptools/pip with Python 3.3+ venvs:
> example, I published the pyvenvex.py script which creates venvs and
> setuptools and pip in a single step:
> https://gist.github.com/vsajip/4673395
> Admittedly it's "only a Gist" and not especially publicised to the wider
> community, but that could be addressed.
> The current situation, as I see it, is a transitional one. When
> functionality becomes available in the stdlib, other approaches will be
> possible, which improve upon what's possible with setuptools and pip. I've
> demonstrated some of this using distil. When targeting Python 3.4,
> we be looking further than just advancing the status quo a little bit?
> It's been said numerous times that "executable setup.py" must go. ISTM
> notwithstanding "practicality beats purity", a pip bootstrap in Python
> would bless executable setup.py and help to extend its lifespan.

Some day pip will get a "wheel only" mode, and that's the step that will
kill off the need to run setup.py on production machines even when using
the Python specific tools.

Blessing both setuptools and pip as the "obvious way to do it" is designed
to give us the wedge we need to start a gradual transition to that world
without facing the initial barriers to adoption that were part of what
scuttled the distutils2 effort.


> Regards,
> Vinay Sajip
> _______________________________________________
> Distutils-SIG maillist  -  Distutils-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
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