[Edu-sig] "Croquet Project" and Python ?

[Arthur]

Francois writes -

>Seymour Papert explains that kids needs tools "to think with" obviously,
>nowadays  kids are born with them.

I took the time to read some of Mr. Papert writings available on the Web.
And have followed Alan Kay a bit. And I do see that the connection.

What I tend to hear in both cases are bald, audacious assertions.  Geniuses
and visionaries get to do that kind of thing. Lucky them.

I happen not to be big on geniuses and visionaries, is the thing.

>Some video-games for example needs to master a system with hundreeds of
>variables, and it's because it's hard to do that they like it. It's
"hard->fun" and programming can be very hard-fun. They hate just fun
"things" >since they become so quicky boring.

I recognize the "hard fun" phrase as Alan Kay's. 

And to be provocative, I will speculate that there may actually be something
to this "geek" thing.  Because  most of the hard fun that I and my friends
had in childhood was on the ballfield.  Challenging oneself physically while
one's physical capacities are in development was  endlessly fascinating to
many of us.  The game was the same, the rules were the same - but there was
never stasis, because our capacities today were more and different than were
our capacities yesterday.  And there were a myriad of emotional and social
lessons to be learned along the way. I certainly can imagine a void existing
for those who did not have this outlet, for whatever reason. But those of us
who did had plenty of hard fun filling our days, and a broom handle and a
Spalding ball were the tools we were thinking with.

There is something very, very old and basic about this kind of hard fun in
childhood. 

It certainly was in 3d - at least.

So I am not sure I see where it has gone obsolete.

Art