[Edu-sig] quantum instance
urnerk at qwest.net
Sun Sep 18 22:44:26 CEST 2005
> My other problem is this:
> Did somebody forgot to mention to me, pre-Python2.2, that the language was
> missing a fundamental construct for the proper configuration of the proper
> API framework?
Apparently many programmers felt this lack, including Guido, and added the
To answer your question: yes, no one thought to tell you -- not clear what
that'd have accomplished. It's your responsibility to read the PEPs.
> And allowed me go about my business of constructing improper API
> frameworks - because that is what the language supported.
> Is it the same somebodies who jump at me when I question the new Python
> who would have jumped at me if I had questioned the old? It often seems
You're free to raise objections at any point along the way, no? Others do,
and often in tones less dark and paranoid, which is probably why they
sometimes get more attention.
I think you effectively self-marginalize by casting yourself as this
always-marginalized kibitzer. You're too interested in the soap opera (real
or imagined), seem less attentive to real engineering considerations.
You seem reluctant to believe that real engineering could be a basis for
changes to Python, prefer to invoke images of secret cabals and
behind-the-scenes machinations. I chalk this up to personality and
> Is information hiding also part of community building?
> If so, what is being hidden now?
You'd have to be on py-dev or be reading the PEPs to get a sense of what's
in the pipeline (maybe you are -- I'm not at the moment, but from time to
time dive into the PEPs). I mentioned after Europython about how yield, and
hence generators, are getting more features.
I think the process whereby Python Enhancement Proposals get submitted and
hashed through *is* a vital part of Python-the-community and even
Python-the-language, and should be taught, including right from the start,
when introducing it to newbies.
By design, I don't think edu-sig is the place to hash through the merits of
this or that PEP. Other mechanisms have been established. So if you
confine your kibitzing to edu-sig, then it's perfectly fine that your
objections don't get a lot of attention. This is not the place for them, if
their purpose is to influence Python's evolution and direction.
On the other hand, I think edu-sig *is* the place to voice pedagogical
concerns, i.e. to talk about how we might best teach the language to others.
I think you've given us a lot of valuable input along these lines over the
years and I'm glad you've been generous with your time. Plus there's Pygeo
itself, which showcases the capabilities of Python/VPython pretty
effectively -- a great advertisement for why Python is such a valuable asset
(including the part about you learning it on your own, having come from
another walk of life besides professional programming -- a good story, all
the better because true).
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