[Edu-sig] The fate of raw_input() in Python 3000

[Arthur]

Peter Bowyer wrote:

> At 11:47 13/09/2006, Arthur wrote:
>
>> I can imagine an introductory course that was in fact more a 
>> *reading* course than a writing course - that spent a good deal of 
>> its time analyzing the code of  relatively straightforward, but 
>> interesting, working applications.  The satellite view, before we 
>> attempt to descend to a finer resolution.
>
>
> That's a lot like how I learned to program.  I bought a book 
> (Professional PHP - nothing like an intro book!) and once I'd read 
> some basics I went in and wrote a proper application - an ecard 
> script, following the outline of Perl code that I'd read previously 
> (without being able to write).  That way I learned from someone else 
> (apprenticeship) and wrote something that was *useful* when finished 
> (encouraging me to learn).

Myself as well.  My first "major" Python project was simply a port of 
some Java code to Python  - a 3d math library.  Read/write - read the 
Java, write the Python. But in the end I had something actually useful, 
to an extent I could not possibly have  accomplished at that point on a 
write/write basis.

All this of course makes Open Source of central importance.  It happens 
that the 3d Java library I wanted to port was not open - nice API docs, 
no source.  Luckily someone in Japan had taken upon themselves to do a 
functionally equivalent Open Source version of the library, .i.e. 
creating functional source working backward from the API.

As it happens, on a *read* basis, about the first thing one can expect 
to encounter and need to explain  (maybe after the doc string) is the 
"import" statement.  To me this feels exactly right.  OTOH, a recent 
post on the Python3000 list - discussing the fate of raw_input() - 
re-iterates the position that an understanding of the import statement 
is something that belongs way, way down the road - in a way that was 
much to sure of itself, for my taste.

That one point - where the "import" statement belongs, pedagogically -  
seems to in some way represent the quake line of different points of 
view.  Bucky might recognize this fact as a symptom of a pre-synergistic 
stage of things. But one side or the other always needs to lose some 
surety in order to make a first move in the direction of synergy..

You first ... whoever you is ;)

Art




> When studying physics I found the same approach worked, taking a 
> real-world application generated enthusiasm for learning esoteric 
> subjects.  If you enjoy learning for the sake of knowledge I guess 
> this approach isn't needed; otherwise I believe it to be the most 
> effective approach.
>
> Peter
>