[EuroPython] EP 2004 decision rather quickly?

[Magnus Lyckå]

At 13:57 2003-07-04 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>I meant that Tom and Denis should add proper compensation for
>their invested time to the conference budget, just like a
>professional organizer would.

It seems you meant just what I feared, despite the smiley, and I
stand by what I said. I appreciate the moral support you are
showing them. I also appreciate what they did, and I certainly
hope that they will have a solid economy, but I don't think this
is the way to achieve that.

I hope Europython has given Aragne a lot of attention that will
turn into business in time.

We can obviously consider several ways of arranging a conference
such as EPC. For me it's completely clear that if the people who
host the conference want to run it as a commercial event, I insist
that there should be some competition and proper procurement
procedures. I don't like monopolies. And with all respect for
Denis, Tom and the others: they are *not* professional conference
arrangers, and I hope they don't want to become that either. If
we wanted to run this as a purely commercial event, there are
others that have much more routine in doing such things.

Frankly, if someone is to be paid at resonable rates for the hours
they spend, I'd prefer that it's someone who does this all the time,
someone who is an expert on this very field, and don't need to
discover how to do it as they do it. Having done something twice
does not make you a professional. I wouldn't suggest that you
hire me as a car mechanic for the rates I charge as a programmer,
even if I have fixed cars now and then.

One thing that we must understand is the power and energy that
comes when someone is doing things out of passion and engagement,
when they do something just because they like it. This doesn't
always mix well with payment I'm afraid. It *can* work, but if
money is involved, there is a much bigger risk that people
continue to take on tasks when the spark has been lost, and
that doesn't work very well. It's completely clear to me that
money won't *create* this power and energy.

I certainly assume that the other people who will have to work
unpaid for EPC will want the financial dealings of the hosting
organization to be clear and open, if they can even consider
doing it at all. Somehow, it's very different if we're all in
the same boat, or if "some animals are more equal than others"
as Orwell put it.

If EuroPython is to stay a community event, it's imperative that
we separate the decision making from the profit making. If we
pay people to work with it, it can't be the people who are getting
paid that calls the shots. Then it won't be a community event.

>You as consultant should know that good work needs good pay and
>I can't really understand your position in suggesting that Tom
>and Denis should continue to do their job for free.

I'm amazed to hear such a statement from someone who is involved
in open source software development. Do I dare to use mxDateTime
any more? :)

You don't charge anyone for answering emails at the db-sig mailing
list, do you? I actually think I've spent about as much time
answering email on the tutor mailing list last year as Denis
spent on arranging Europython. I'm guessing widly, but I'm sure
it's much, much more time than any of the track chairmen spent on
their tracks.

I can't charge money for that. On the other hand, it's actually
led to some contacts that in turn led to some income for me. I also
learnt a lot that I think has made me a better professional.

You can't bill for ever hour you spend working. Sometimes we must
sow so that we can harvest later. Some of the seeds we sow won't
grow. That's life.

>Talking at a conference is one thing, organizing a track
>another, but making the whole event happen is on a completely
>different scale. Even more if you take on huge financial
>risks.

I can certainly agree with the last part. It's not reasonable that
Denis or Aragne takes on a big finacial risk arranging this. That
is something entirely different than to get paid for time spent.

I think the solution to that would be some kind of legal body
that stands behind Europython. I don't think this is quite the
right time to decide about that though.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language