[EuroPython] What the heck does "pythonic" mean?
Martijn Faassen
faassen at infrae.com
Wed Apr 13 14:22:45 CEST 2005
Michael Hudson wrote:
> Martijn Faassen <faassen at infrae.com> writes:
>
>>In Zope 3, a lot of effort was taken to allow the integration of
>>Pythonic code. Zope 3's codebase itself is also a lot more modern
>>Python, so could qualify as "Pythonic" as well. Unfortunately
>>turn-offs for Python developers new to Zope 3 are ZCML
>
> Bloody hell yes.
>
>>and the sheer magnitude of the framework and the amount of new
>>concepts involved. I believe something like ZCML is necessary,
> That something like ZCML is necessary to deploy large systems I'm not
> prepared to dispute, but that it (seems to be? currently?) is
> necessary to do even toy development with zope 3 is a serious turn
> off.
Agreed -- there has been some work on a bobo for Zope 3 that might fix
this. I haven't checked it out myself, but it might be fun to experiment
with this to see how far we can take this.
One main problem with Zope 3 right now is that the initial learning
curve to get a "Hello world" going is too big; too much framework stuff
needs to be done, even though the framework stuff *is* separated out
from the Python code.
> When I got to the point in the Zope 3 Book where it says "simply type
> these 70 lines of XML into browser/configure.zcml" I might have thrown
> it out of the window if I wasn't reading it in PDF :)
Heh, I can imagine that. It's also not didactically correct; the minimal
amount of ZCML needed to get *something* going can be cut down to, I
think, 4 or 5 lines. :)
> Shane Hathaway put it very neatly in:
>
> http://hathawaymix.org/Weblog/2005-01-26
>
> (especially his comment).
>
> I guess this is known, and Zope 3 will get there in the end.
Repeating this can't hurt at all; I believe it certainly won't hurt
anything if the core developers get signals like this more often.
Regards,
Martijn
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