[EuroPython] Diversity of attendees

Thu Apr 17 14:45:42 CEST 2014

W dniu 17.04.2014 13:59, M.-A. Lemburg pisze:
>
> Unfortunately, we did not have much choice in recent selections, with
> only a single submitted proposal.

It would be good to tell a bit more what caused that others didn't 
submit proposals.

Well if someone is interested how things looked here is e-mail I've sent 
to PSF on 1st of July 2013 explaining what actually happened and how 
things looked like.

tl;dr

Originally the Call for (organizers) proposals was supposed to be 
published in Autumn 2012 with deadline for proposals in Spring 2013.

It ended giving Call for (organizers) proposals in mid-May 2013 and 
deadline in mid-June 2013. Many other issues along the way.

> Dear Board of Python Software Foundation,
>
> I'm writing to you because I believe that these kind of things shouldn't pass silently and I also believe that this story should be a warning for others that every part of Python community should be respected and treated seriously - especially if we all want to keep status of that great community Jesse Noller was talking about on PyCon US. The mail is about how we tried to apply for organizing EuroPython and how we hit the wall several times during last two years.
>
> Below is an explanation of what actually happened:
>
> 1. January 2012 - Fabio Pliger informed on EP public mailing list that no one applied for organizing EuroPython 2013/2014 and he is looking forward for concrete and serious proposals [1]
>
> 2. Beginning of March 2012 - on our behalf Łukasz Langa (which for long was and is still active in PyCon PL Program Committee) talked with Fabio Pliger on PyCon US '12 about possibility of still applying for EuroPython 2013/2014. Fabio asked to contact him and Laura Creighton about details. We've sent the e-mail on 11th of March.
>
> 3. April 2012 - after a month of waiting we've finally got the answer that it is too late to apply for EP2013/2014 and instead we should apply for EP2014/2015. Laura Creighton suggested for us to talk on EP2013 about applying for EP2014/EP2015
>
> 4. July 2012 - On EP I was informed by Fabio that there will be a call for organizers in Autumn for EP2014/EP2015, so then the details will be provided. Some of us arrived day before EP to help a bit Italian organizers.
> On EP there was EPS (EuroPython Society) meeting where new EPS board has been chosen. Results of the meeting can be read at [2], here is the especially important part:
>
> "The new board will put out a call for proposal for 2014, with a requirements specification during the fall of 2012. A deadline for bids will be in the early spring of 2013. Organisers of Europython 2014 will be expected to take part in the organisation of the 2013 conference, to learn more about how to arrange a conference on this scale."
>
> 5. Autumn 2012 - no CfP, no details
>
> 6. 6th January 2013 - I've asked Fabio when the CfP is released, because it is already January and it was supposed to be published in autumn previous year. I've got answer that in _a_few_days [3][4]
>
> 7. 8th February 2013 - I've asked again about CfP and no one even cared to answer briefly how the situation looks like [5]
>
> 8. 22th February 2013 - I've asked (this time privately only Fabio) about when I can expect call for EP2014/2015 and if there is a way I can help.
>
> 9. 5th March 2013 - I've received reply from Fabio that he can send me a raw material of EP proposal details and with my help this can be prepared earlier. I've agreed and asked to send me the raw document. The document wasn't send by Fabio. [6]
>
> 10. 6th March - 15th May - silence again
>
> 11. 15th May - CfP (CfO) was announced
>
> I'm sorry, but after so much time of waiting, me and the others had a right to not treat seriously EPS to release any CfP (CfO) in 2013 at all. For example I've made my own plans for May and 1st half of June (several trips including one longer to Finland which was planned in April (booked the tickets) and I was busy preparing the launch of two conferences websites). When the CfP came I was really angry, because I've realized I won't have time to apply for it and gather all the people again to send a serious proposal).
>
> Fabio contacted me in the June and I've informed him how the situation looks from our PoV and that we won't be able to submit a proposal in current situation. Fabio's reply wasn't good, because not only it was unpleasant (putting blame on us), but also contained untrue statement - that I did not want to help in March and that I've sent reply that I won't help, which was not truth [7]+[6]. Later Marc Andre-Lemburg informed that it must have been a miscommunication suggesting that Fabio didn't understand well what I've written [6]. We were asked to write how the CfP (CfO) rules can be changed in order for us to send the proposal. I expressed my view on that:
>
> "Current situation is really hard. It's after the deadline, we have currently busy period and I would have to gather people that previously wanted to organize EP once again (normal PyCon PL team is smaller as it is smaller conference - 200-300 attendees expected this year). So I don't think it is realistic to prepare such proposal sooner than around then end of July. I am also not sure if extending the period would be fair to other groups that applied. It is hard situation overall."
>
> and
>
>
> =================
>
> "Hi Marc,
>
> I am aware of that fact, because I cooperate with many people from abroad (yes also when organizing conferences). If someone states that I've denied to help on important matter when I clearly offered help and confirmed it, then I don't know what to think about it (answering "yes" to a question doesn't mean "no"). Just imagine for a minute that you are in my shoes and after months of waiting, you hear such things. I guess you would probably also feel annoyed, by the whole situation.
>
> I also see another problem here. Let's assume that the board will give us the extended period and we will submit a proposal. Imagine what can happen:
>
> 1. If our proposal would be accepted, then the other groups that have sent proposals have a right to feel that the EPS board favoured us and changed the rules to help us.
> 2. If our proposal wouldn't be accepted, then some of us might feel that extending the period was only a way to please us in this situation and to end our claims.
>
> The situation is really hard and if the period will be extended then maybe the decision about proposals should be left to some neutral entity such as PSF or people that aren't involved in what happened here. There is this old saying "Nemo iudex in causa sua" (from Latin - no one should be judge in his own cause)."
>
> =================
>
> I've received reply that board won't change the rules, because that would be unfair (so why did they asked us to propose rules changing at all?). Anyway we asked some very important questions, which the EPS board haven't answered at all, like for example:
>
> 1. Why 11th March 2012 was too late to apply for organizing EuroPython 2013 when 15th June 2013 wasn't too late for EuroPython 2014.
>
> 2. In January Fabio stated that CfP will be announced in a few days. What was EPS board doing all that time when few days turned into 4.5 months?
>
> ---
>
> I was involved in organizing different events since 2004 and I'm aware and understand that it is hard piece of work and requires a lot of effort. I know how sometimes it is hard to keep all the deadlines, but the thing that concerns me when looking at the whole case is how some part of community is not treated entirely seriously by EPS. In our opinion it shouldn't be that way.
>
> Best regards,
> Filip
>
>
> ---
>
> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2012-January/008016.html
> [2] https://ep2013.europython.eu/blog/2012/07/08/change-board-europython-society
> [3] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2013-January/008195.html
> [4] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2013-January/008196.html
> [5] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2013-February/008214.html
> [6]
>
> =======
> Data: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 18:15:24 +0100
> Nadawca: Filip Kłębczyk <fklebczyk at gmail.com>
> Adresat: Fabio Pliger <fabio.pliger at s3srl.com>
>
> W dniu 05.03.2013 18:04, Fabio Pliger pisze:
>> Hi Filip,
>>
>> Yes. We had a meeting few weeks ago but seems that we are all too busy
>> to write up a document with all the decisions made and the related
>> issues. If you want to help I can send you the raw material and you
>> could try to put a document draft that we can use to speed up things and
>> relase it as soon as we can.
>>
>> What do you think?
>
> Yes, please send me but that might be a problematic right now - some of
> us are going to PyCon US and I doubt that we will manage to do a lot
> work from there (especially that making phone calls to venues from there
> will be not much possible).
>
> Best regards,
> Filip
>
> PS. Btw. Please send e-mails to my gmail adress
> =======
>
> [7]
>
> W dniu 12.06.2013 12:11, Fabio Pliger pisze:
>> If you
>> remember well I've asked if you and your team wanted to help us
>> preparing the CFP but you said no.
>>