[Idle-dev] IDLE is spoiling Python image!

Roman Suzi rnd@onego.ru
Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:42:07 +0400 (MSD)


On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> > I believe this is more important for Python as a language than MOST
> > other features or missing features of IDLE combined, because IDLE can't be
> > used for non-latin1 works AT ALL.
> 
> Of course, that depends on how large the fraction of IDLE users is
> that have this need.  Here in the US it is perceived as near zero.  Of
> course in Russia it is perceived as near 100%, since Cyrillic is not
> part of Latin-1.  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I
> want to warn you that you are probably exaggerating the importance,
> world-wide, at this moment.

OK. Maybe latin1 could approximate world-wide. But the problem is that
those who want to learn what Python just drop their attempt, because when
they try to write in their native language in IDLE they are getting
non-sensical errors (like scripts which do not want to open, etc).

I am speaking of Windows's users(*): they see IDLE in the main menu.  Of
course it is not matter for experienced users and programmers: they know
that lack of cyrillic in IDLE doesn't mean the language is bad as well.

(*)(Linux users are accustomed that cyrillic could not work and this is
not of much problem to "cyrillize", making all latin1 fonts cyrillic fonts
without any fuss.)

So, Inow  could not even recommend Python 2.x for those who learn/teach it
by means of IDLE! And command line is ugly in Windows, you know.

That is why I argue that IDLE is a Python's *visit card* and it could be
however simple and featureless, but it must work right for everyone
with rightly localised OS setup.

That is why me, Kirill and other Python users from Russia like to see this
situation corrected as soon as possible and are suggesting to develop
patches. 'cause we like Python and want more people here to teach and
learn it.  It's not only matter of fraction of IDLE users. Its a matter of
Python greeting it's new users in a friendly way. Later they will learn
that IDLE is probably not the best way to program, but they will never
look at Python again remembering that it was wrong and concluding that it
could be wrong not only in the such simple thing as right encoding. (Who
will explain them that IDLE is dependent on Tcl/Tk and that such
misfortune happened with transition to v8 of it. They tried to use Python
not some Tcl/Tk they never knew about).

I hope I was clear in my explanation why current IDLE makes Python
advocacy difficult here in Russia.

If we could solve it without too much slowing latin1 people, then there is
no arguments why not to do it. Anyway, solution must be simpler than
recompiling _tkinter.c.


Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd@onego.ru -