suggestion for Full Customization [Mailman-Developers]

[Brad Knowles]

At 11:31 AM -0700 2004/05/10, Somuchfun wrote:

>  You might want to ignore it but there are announcement lists and newsletters
>  people actually want to get and this is not spam by definition. If I get a
>  newsletter from United Airlines for example because I am a frequent traveler
>  and I asked for it then it is not spam and they still use a mailing list
>  manager.

	Sure, but they don't try to hide the fact that they're using a 
mailing list manager.  They don't try to make me believe that Sandra 
is sending a personal e-mail exclusively to me and no one else.

	No, they have an established business relationship with me, and 
they don't try to hide anything, except possibly how many other 
people with whom they have similar established relationships, and 
what their addresses may be.


	Trying to hide the fact that you're using a mailing list manager 
(or whatever other tool you may be using) is a typical behaviour of 
spammers, and so far as I know is not a common behaviour outside of 
that community.

	So, if you want to hide the fact that you're using a mailing list 
manager you are going to have to do a HELL of a lot of work to 
convince me that you're not a spammer.

>  I have also watched this and all the other mailman lists for a while and
>  came to the conclusion that you have your own agenda and idea and push for
>  it regardless of what other people think or say.

	You're welcome to think or claim anything you like.

>  What James asked for is totally legitimate and has very good reasons.

	Prove it.

>  Let's face it - mailman has lots of shortcomings and they have not been
>  looked at because you personally do not feel like it.

	I don't control the development on Mailman.  Barry Warsaw is the 
primary author, but code contributions are made by many people within 
the community.

>                                                        If it is a mailing
>  list manager like you claim then tell me how come you cannot even sort the
>  membership list by domain or get a clear overview of how many are suspended?
>  How come you cannot even edit a member entry in case someone changes their
>  email address?

	If you want to contribute code or otherwise be useful, you are 
welcome to do so.

>  This issues have been brought up before and you do not even comment on these
>  because you personally feel they are not worth your time?

	I haven't seen these issues being brought up on the list, and if 
they have, they're going to have to be resolved through the 
application of source code.  If you would like to help resolve these 
issues, I'm sure that Barry would be glad to take a look at whatever 
code you may wish to contribute.

>  And stop calling everyone a spamer who does not fit into your personal "box"
>  - I am sure you would not like me calling you a "code-nazi" either (as some
>  have done on other forums by the way!).

	I do not know what you have been smoking.  Whatever it is, it 
must have been some pretty damn good stuff.

	I am not Barry Warsaw.  I do not control Mailman.  I am just one 
voice on the mailing list, although I do have over a decade of 
experience building extremely large mail systems, and running large 
mailing lists.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles at skynet.be>

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
     -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.