suggestion for Full Customization [Mailman-Developers]

[Somuchfun]

Brad,
I am literally shocked to see that you think everyone who does not agree
with you is a Spamer! I honestly have to question your ethics and if you
think you are better than others or just set the rules?
You might want to ignore it but there are announcement lists and newsletters
people actually want to get and this is not spam by definition. If I get a
newsletter from United Airlines for example because I am a frequent traveler
and I asked for it then it is not spam and they still use a mailing list
manager.
I have also watched this and all the other mailman lists for a while and
came to the conclusion that you have your own agenda and idea and push for
it regardless of what other people think or say.
It also seems that you tend to throw in some arrogance and all do not have a
problem to over and over throw in your "experience" to either try to out
others as beginners or "not on your level".
What James asked for is totally legitimate and has very good reasons. I have
to give him credit for being so nice after you were very rude to his simple
questions. He even offered help but you just flat out call him a spamer! How
rude!
So how "open" source is mailman really? I get more and more the impression
that mailman is the personal agenda of Brad Knowles and not a community or
group effort open to everyone who wants to help.
Let's face it - mailman has lots of shortcomings and they have not been
looked at because you personally do not feel like it. If it is a mailing
list manager like you claim then tell me how come you cannot even sort the
membership list by domain or get a clear overview of how many are suspended?
How come you cannot even edit a member entry in case someone changes their
email address?
This issues have been brought up before and you do not even comment on these
because you personally feel they are not worth your time?
Get real and come down from your "throne" and start listen to what people
really have to say and think otherwise mailman will become one day obsolete
because you were not able to see beyond your own "world".
And stop calling everyone a spamer who does not fit into your personal "box"
- I am sure you would not like me calling you a "code-nazi" either (as some
have done on other forums by the way!).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad.knowles at skynet.be] 
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 1:51 AM
> To: James Ralston
> Cc: mailman-developers at python.org
> Subject: Re: suggestion for Full Customization [Mailman-Developers]
> 
> At 2:54 AM -0400 2004/05/10, James Ralston wrote:
> 
> >  ...why would you even *want* to have the listname for an 
> announcement
> >  list exposed in the To and/or CC header of messages sent 
> through the
> >  list?  If a recipient replies to the list, it's just going to go to
> >  the moderators, right?  In most cases, the person who is 
> sending the
> >  messages will *be* the moderator.  Why not just bypass this
> >  indirection and have the replies go directly to the sender 
> (i.e., the
> >  moderator)?
> 
> 	One of the fundamental concepts of a mailing list is 
> that people 
> know that the content is being shared with multiple recipients, and 
> anything they receive via the list is public knowledge (at least, to 
> the other list recipients), and anything they post will likewise be 
> public knowledge.  By breaking this concept and making everything 
> appear to be private e-mail sent directly from the moderator to the 
> individual recipients, you are completely changing the apparent 
> nature of the communication.
> 
> 	In a sense, you are lying to the recipients, giving them the 
> illusion that each and every one of them is privately receiving this 
> content.  Moreover, any response that they may have has a much higher 
> likelihood of being something that they'd share privately but would 
> not state publicly, or at least wouldn't say the same thing in the 
> same way.  There would then be a serious risk that this response 
> would then be shared with all the other recipients, perhaps to the 
> very serious detriment of the responder.
> 
> 
> 	Fundamentally, mailing lists should not try to hide the 
> fact that 
> they exist, and that the content being sent and received is being 
> shared amongst other people.
> 
> 	It's fine for mailing lists to try to hide the details of their 
> inner workings, perhaps to make it more difficult for people to abuse 
> them inappropriately.  But they should not try to hide their very 
> existence.
> 
> >  Are the specifics of what I'm suggesting clearer now?
> 
> 	Nope.  It still sounds to me like you're trying to abuse the 
> software for spamming.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles at skynet.be>
> 
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>      -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
> 
>    SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
> 
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