[Mailman-Developers] PHP Wrappers?

Kevin McCann kmccann at cruciverb.com
Thu Nov 17 13:16:09 CET 2005

This is my last response to Brad's messages (actually *these* are 
diatribes if anything), and I only do so to make a few things clear:

- I'm not begging for anything; I'd like to see some things come to 
fruition for the greater good. I have no personal stake in this, 
financial or otherwise.
- I don't want people to "solve my problems." I see possible solutions 
to challenges and would like to try to help meet them.
- I have seen missed opportunities to help move MM3 forward. Yes, I'm 
disappointed, but for entirely unselfish reasons

For what it's worth, the kind of tool that I'm hoping to see--from a 
functional point of view--has already been created. At Bellanet (my 
former org.) we created something called Dgroups (see www.dgroups.org) 
several years ago. The problem is that it relies on commercial software 
(Lyris, ColdFusion, MS SQL). We wanted other international development 
organizations, especially in developing countries, to be able to have a 
dgroups for themselves. Essentially decentralize the service and build 
capacity in the south. But commercial software was not practical, and we 
really had moved toward open source policies by this point, anyway.

The idea, then, had been to find/develop the same kind of tool using 
open source components. It didn't need to be a dozen tings thrown 
together, as Brad insinuated. Only three (MLM, CMS or custom PHP front 
end, SQL database).

It didn't look like MM2 was going to cut it because of, among other 
things, data storage issues. So I suggested to the org. that we try to 
get something happening with MM3. That's when we talked to Barry, 
attended the sprint, etc. But when all was said and done, it just didn't 
work out. So, instead of a good chunk of money going to the MM3 cause, 
it is now going to go to some questionable attempt at integrating Sympa 
with something (not my decision).

So, yes, I'm disappointed in the lost opportunity but for exactly two 
reasons: 1) it means missed resources for MM3, 2)  it means that 
international development groups will wait longer for the tool we had 
hoped to provide them with. In international development, time is an 
issue because quicker solutions means less suffering.  I have absolutely 
no personal stake in any of this. But having been in international 
development for 13 years, hoping for advances for the common good 
becomes second nature.

Having said all of this, I should add that I went back and read my 
original message. Yes, I came off strong. I wish I had said things 
differently. It *did* sound critical. For that, I apologize. But I want 
you to know is that my interest is solely in the greater good and 
nothing else.  So, go ahead, kick me in the head again if it'll make you 
feel better, but you should know that you completely misunderstand my 
motivations and my agenda.

- Kevin

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