[Mailman-Users] New user - Mailman question
brad at stop.mail-abuse.org
Sun Aug 22 15:03:50 CEST 2004
At 5:38 PM -0700 2004-08-21, Charles Mikecz Vamossy wrote:
> You may think my ISP's spamware is stupid and for all I know you may be
Auto-whitelist management systems (such as TMDA) are greatly
despised amongst much of the Internet community. I don't know if
your ISP is using this particular package or not, but I make a policy
of refusing to communicate with anyone who uses such a system. And
if someone who uses a system like this is posting to a mailing list
I'm on, I am not likely to be very kind in my public responses to the
way their mail system is treating me.
> My intention was - as it is with any new list I join - to wait for the
> first digest to appear in my "suspect Email" box, authorize it and then
> merrily read the daily digests. Instead, by the time I returned from
> dinner, I was criticised and reviled by the group.
If you're going to use this kind of a system, you need to wait
for the first few messages (or digests) to show up before you post a
message to the list, and you should warn people that you have such an
anti-spam system in use. If nothing else, you need to get a flavour
for the sort of discussions that happen on the list before you jump
in head first.
Posting to the list immediately after subscribing is generally
considered to be rude, unless you've done your homework and checked
out the archives of the list, and you can make sure that your post
fits in with the style and flavour of the list.
For that matter, before posting to any list, you should search
the archives and the FAQ, to make sure that this issue is not
well-known and previously discussed.
Even if your post is on a subject that is not addressed through
the archives or the FAQ, and it is in the appropriate style, if you
are using an anti-spam system that effectively spams anyone who tries
to send you mail, then you should warn people about that as part of
your signature in every post or e-mail message you send.
So far as I can tell, you violated all of these rules of courtesy.
> Perhaps it is not MM that's at fault, but rather the way MM is set up.
This has nothing to do with Mailman. This has everything to do
with your multiple violations of the rules of common courtesy.
> I don't know. The experience is enough, however, to convince me that
> while MM may be a good platform for large users who can afford a full
> time administrator, especially if the software is enhanced by inhouse
> developed and other commercial software.
This is not at all the case. I am not a full-time administrator,
and I administer multiple different mailing lists for multiple
different groups on multiple different systems, all using Mailman.
Some of those lists & groups are small, some are a bit larger.
In fact, I would submit that there are virtually no full-time
Mailman mailing list administrators anywhere in the world. Maybe a
handful, at most -- and most of whom are probably on these mailing
> For plain vanilla lists, it
> is better to stick with one of the Big Vanillas.
Mailman *is* one of the Big Vanillas. In fact, I would argue
that it is probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest.
The difference is that Mailman is not used to host individual
lists that are the largest in the world (although there is a
full-time Mailman list administrator for lists.apple.com, and he
manages some very large lists for them, and in his private life hosts
a number of other extremely large lists on his own equipment).
What you do get with Mailman is not the extreme size of the
individual lists, but the amazing number and variety of smaller sites
that are running smaller lists, the sum total of which ends up making
the community of Mailman users as large or larger than most any other
community of mailing list users anywhere in the world.
I believe you will find that most Linux-related mailing lists are
hosted using Mailman, and I know that all the FreeBSD mailing lists
are using Mailamn. I believe that it is the most widely used mailing
list management software in the open source community, and one of the
most widely used mailing list management systems outside of that
community. Most of that has happened not just because it's shipped
by default by a lot of vendors, but because of all the mailing list
management systems in the world, it's one of the easiest to install,
configure, and manage. Indeed, that's probably why a lot of vendors
choose to ship it by default.
With China and India both going for Linux with a vengence from
the government on down to the man-in-the-street, that's a potential
two to three billion users within the target future growth patterns
of the open source community. That's like one-third to one-half the
entire population of the world, or more.
Mailman is the leading mailing list management system within that
community today, and I believe that it is likely to remain the
leading mailing list management system within that community for the
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
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