[Mailman-Users] Newbie requesting basic how-to

Brad Knowles brad at stop.mail-abuse.org
Wed Sep 22 10:56:05 CEST 2004

At 3:32 AM -0500 2004-09-22, Jon Roland wrote:

>>      I don't understand how you could possibly accomplish this.  Are
>>  you proposing that the Python developers create an entire new
>>  Graphical User Interface, to compete with X11R6/Gnome/KDE and the
>>  like, and then somehow serve this remotely via the Internet?!?
>  Of course not. Just a simple GUI front end for installing and setting
>  up a Mailman site, that would incorporate expert knowledge about
>  various environments so that the user doesn't have to struggle with
>  manually editing configuration files, finding needed program files,
>  launching web servers and mailman daemons, establishing interfaces
>  with the MTA, etc.

	What do you mean by "a simple GUI front end"?  I mean, even the 
simplest X11R6 application is going to be larger than the entire 
Python/Mailman project, even if it's just the graphical version of 
"Hello, World!"

	You then also get into KDE vs. Gnome vs. whatever arguments, so 
you end up having to do twelve zillion different versions for all the 
hundreds of different platforms we support.

	I mean, it's not like we support just one single Linux 
distribution running on a single hardware platform with a single GUI 
environment and a single Desktop Manager.

>  But I'm more interested in a GUI for site setup. If it can start and
>  stop the web server, running it long enough to create a list and add
>  or delete recipients to or from it is acceptable, provided one doesn't
>  forget to stop it when that is complete.

	Again, tell me how we can do this in a cross-platform way that 
will work on all the many multitudes of hardware/OS platforms we 

	Now, tell me how we can do that without effectively providing our 
own entire Operating System, Graphical User Environment, Desktop 
Manager, etc... that we port along with us to every single platform. 
The Mozilla people go a pretty long ways towards doing just that, and 
they don't support nearly as many different hardware/OS platforms as 
we do, and they're just a client and don't have a server side to be 
concerned about.

	For us, the code we're writing is pretty much just the server 
side alone, with some interface components to try to make it a bit 
easier to manage the system via a web browser connected to a web 

>  Wherever did you get the bizarre idea I was proposing some entire new
>  desktop environment? Simple setup GUI, like the ones we use for setting
>  up email clients and accounts for them. User just has to choose from
>  among suggested options, and not have to type in much if anything. That
>  doesn't seem like too much to ask for.

	Clearly, you're not getting the concept here.  Maybe you should 
get the DNA "Infinite Improbability Award" after all.

>  If Linux is going to displace MS Windows, major apps are going to have
>  to enable users to use their tools without ever having to see the CLI.
>  Point and click.

	You think it's possible for us to care exclusively about a single 
OS?  Sure, we may have our individual personal preferences, but so 
does everyone else.

Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

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