[Mailman-Users] Pretty good Announcement only How-to + more on Mac

Brad Knowles brad at stop.mail-abuse.org
Sat Sep 25 21:59:26 CEST 2004

At 11:45 AM -0700 2004-09-25, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

>  Um, Apple has supported Mailman for years. They pay my salary, and have
>  fully supported me in putting my time and energy into this project.

	The problem is that there are different groups within Apple. 
There's the group you're a part of, and which has been a strong 
supporter of Mailman for a long time.  Then there's the group that is 
responsible for developing and supporting MacOS X Server (a separate 
product from the regular MacOS X "Client").

	Unfortunately, the latter group is well-known to effectively 
ignore support requests, even from customers paying thousands upon 
thousands of dollars per year in support contracts.  Their answer for 
many problems is to wipe and re-install, even if the real problem is 
a simple mis-configuration that can be corrected through the custom 
GUI that they have developed -- and if you won't or can't afford to 
apply their Universal Solution for All Problems, then they simply 
disconnect you and refuse to provide any further support.

	Moreover, it is this latter group which has taken the Mailman 
code and developed their own custom management GUI, and who refuse to 
provide any feedback to the Mailman project as to what they've done 
or how any of their bits interface with ours.

	Since they refuse to provide any real support for MacOS X Server 
with respect to Mailman, and they don't provide us the information we 
would need so that we could provide that support, we are left in an 
untenable situation.

	The Mailman project is not the only group to be put in such a bad 
situation by the MacOS X Server development/support team.  I've heard 
these complaints from other projects, too.

	Now, if you could use your position there to help break this 
logjam, that would be great.  However, given what I've heard from 
other Apple employees about their previous encounters with regards to 
this situation and their own inability to get support from the MacOS 
X Server development/support team, I doubt that is likely to be 

	Unfortunately, this puts you in an even worse position.

Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

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