[Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

JC Dill lists05 at equinephotoart.com
Mon Sep 18 18:26:51 CEST 2006

Jason R. Mastaler wrote:
> On 9/17/06 11:20 PM, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>>> Great, thanks Barry.  I'll take care of getting the MM lists + back 
>>> archives added to Gmane.  The missing Python lists are someone else's 
>>> problem <wink>.  Since MM is your project, shouldn't your words above 
>>> be sufficient as far as permission to add the lists?  Or are you 
>>> saying some sort of additional request from Gmane is also necessary?
>> Barry has clearly stated "if the Gmane administrators make a formal 
>> request" and this was the point that past mirroring (or archiving) 
>> requests were rejected, IIRC.
> Yes I read that, but it seems pointless to me since Barry has also 
> clearly stated he approves of the lists being added.  Like I said, when 
> the lists are added, the list-owner address will be notified, as that is 
> the normal procedure.  Is this sufficient?

While Barry is the primary developer and primary list owner, he does NOT 
manage these lists alone.  Many of you may be unaware that Brad Knowles 
and I have been doing almost all of the list management in recent years. 
  Brad and I are both against adding mailman to gmane for a number of 
reasons.  Here are 2 of my reasons (Brad may have others):

1)  Gmane has been a PITA from day one because they don't follow their 
own policies.  (Read the archives for all the details.)  I don't trust 
them.  Who knows what they will do in the future without notifying us?

2)  Even if Gmane wasn't a PITA, there are increased problems with 
managing a list when it's gatewayed to usenet.  (Example - allowing 
posts from non-subscribers.  Either we end up with thread fragmentations 
where some people get the non-member posts and others don't, or the list 
managers have to deal with non-member posts being gatewayed back to the 
list.)  We are busy enough as it is when we manage it as just a mailing 

If Barry wants to let the list be gatewayed to gmane and usenet over our 
objections, he is certainly entitled to do that.  It will also mean that 
he will need new people to help manage the various lists that Brad and I 
help manage because I'm with Brad on this - gateway to gmane without 
even asking my opinion and I'm no longer interested in helping manage 
the list.  We (the people on mailman-users-owner who do the lion's share 
of the work in managing the lists) deserve to be consulted and have our 
opinions heard on this matter.


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