[Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Brad Knowles writes:

 > More importantly, it would be much less difficult for us to support
 > that part of the community, which would help reduce the support
 > burden that Apple has to maintain.

C'mon, Brad, it's *annoying* to have to support that part of the
community, but it's never been difficult.  "Install Mailman from
source, OK?"

 > With Xcode switching from llvm from gcc for the backend, and the
 > way that llvm is continuing to be developed in partnership, maybe
 > we can convince them to take a similar approach to Mailman and
 > other open source software?

llvm is a key component of their strategy for Mac OS X developer
support as far as I can see.  They did the same with CUPS for users.
But I don't think Mailman is a big part of their overall strategy.
They just considered it a cool thing to put in their distribution.

 > > (This advice was especially effective when coming from Chuq. :-)
 > 
 > Yes, well -- he had the advantage that not only was he an Apple
 > employee, he was also running lists.apple.com, and used Mailman to
 > do it.

Well, the real point is that as somebody running some of the biggest
most active lists in the world, he didn't use Apple's version -- he
used and advocated stock Mailman.  And he didn't have a lot nice to
say about Apple server support, either.

 > That sequence of events doesn't serve anyone well -- not the
 > customer, nor Apple, nor our community.  We can do better.

*We* can.  Apple won't.

Now, if somebody here can channel Steve Jobs and get direct access to
the top execs at Apple, maybe they could force the server people to
turn over maintenance to us.  But the server division would surely
fight that with fire.