[Mailman-Users] Internet Message Format: Identification Fields

willi uebelherr willi.uebelherr at gmail.com
Tue Jun 24 15:50:56 CEST 2014

Dear William and Mark and all,

many thanks for your answer. I understand, that never you want to make 
any special action for a specific task for Gmail.

But now, for me it is not a question of the specific "duplicate 
suppression" from google-mail. it is a more general debate about the 
principles of "Internet Message Format".

i have have now many alternatives.
1) the proposal from Richard Damon
2) a second account on gmail
3) a non-gmail account like gmx (i have) or a new riseup account

Many thanks for your proposals.

But, please, let us discuss more about the principles. I don't analyse 
the sources from mailman and thunderbird to know on what points they use 
the message-id for what process. What header-fields use thunderbird for 
thread-ordering? Maybe, on this list read some people from the 
thunderbird developer group or from other mailtools to explain the needs.

The message-id should be a unique id for a mail. The mail is a 
combination of the header and body. This two parts together build the 
specific mail. If you change one part, you create a new mail.

Following of that, if mailman change the subject line or append a 
footer, it is a new mail and need a new message-id. Consequently, we can 
say, if the header of a mail is extended on his way from one client to 
the other client, an all chainpoints there are creating a new mail. 
Because they axtend the header with header fields for the in/out nodes.

This is the result of the logic of the RFC 5322.

I know, in our time we have a confuse situation. Many things from our 
history overlaped this logic. And the people for one single project are 
not part of the whole project, the mail processing in the internet. They 
work seperated and sometimes against.

We can see, that hotmail create a wrong message-id in relation to RFC 
5322. But is the syntactical structure important? I think no. Only the 
uniqueness, the singularity, is important.

In my thinking i prefer that mailman can be a reference implementation 
for maillist-server. Because in principial, only a Open Source project 
can can fulfill this function. But this makes it necessary to reflect 
our own doing and to discuss the process algorithms on a open and free 
base. Committed only the basic fundamentals.

And what i read from Mark i see, that he act in a personal defense 
against Gmail. And that is not good. I had the same positiob before. But 
now, i changed my thinking. I see, that the argumentation from bkennely 
is correct. And this is independent from, that he work for Google Gmail.

mant thanks and many greetings, willi
Panama City

Am 06/23/2014 07:11 p.m., schrieb William Bagwell:
> On Monday 23 June 2014, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Your choice is clear to me. If you don't like the way Gmail handles your
>> list posts, subscribe and post from a non-gmail address.
> Mark, off topic for *this* list though you might want to add this to the FAQ?
> willi, some web hosting servers will allow customers to post outgoing mail
> with any address you own. Even if it does not match the domain you have
> hosted with them. My ISP (.tds) address has been outsourced to Gmail for
> about five years. When this message returns to me Gmail will not discared it
> as a duplicate since they did not see it out bound.
> Only good solution I have found though it does cost $5 per month for hosting.
> Which I would have anyway just for my web site...

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