[Numpy-discussion] Taking back control of the #numpy irc channel

Wed Aug 8 12:06:36 EDT 2018

On Wed, 2018-08-08 at 08:55 -0700, Ralf Gommers wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:23 AM, Sebastian Berg <sebastian at sipsolution
> s.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2018-08-07 at 22:07 -0700, Ralf Gommers wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 4:34 AM, Sebastian Berg <sebastian at sipsolu
> > tion
> > > s.net> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 2018-08-06 at 21:52 -0700, Ralf Gommers wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 7:15 PM, Nathan Goldbaum <nathan12343@
> > gmai
> > > > l.co
> > > > > m> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I idle in #scipy and have op in there. I’m happy start
> > idling
> > > > in
> > > > > > #numpy and be op if the community is willing to let me.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks Nathan. Sounds useful.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Sounds good. I haven't really hung out there for a long time
> > > > (frankly,
> > > > I never hung out in #numpy, I thought people just use #scipy).
> > > > 
> > > > Can we just give a few names (such as Matti, Nathan, maybe me,
> > > > anyone
> > > > else right now?) and add others later ourselves?
> > > > I can get in contact with freenode (unless someone already
> > did).
> > > 
> > > Thanks Sebastian. Go ahead I'd say.
> > 
> > 
> > Will do, just realized looking at it. The Steering Council list,
> > etc.
> > has a list of names, but not email addresses (or PGP keys). I do
> > not
> > remember, was that intentional or not? 
> 
> I have a vague memory of that being intentional, but not sure. I
> don't mind making email addresses public; they can be found from git
> commit logs and mailing lists anyway, so why make life difficult for
> whomever wants to reach us.
>  

Yeah, well, I find PGP keys a good idea, even if they might outdate
once in a while.... That means if someone wants to check you can easily
sign an email and they can be pretty sure you can claim to have some
sway in NumPy (right now freenode did it by seeing I have power on
github, but it is not really quite ideal).

On a general note about IRC, we have claimed #numpy now:

If anyone wants anything #numpy related on IRC now (new channels, cloak
namespaces, ...), please contact me or Matti (I assume you are happy
with that role!). If someone is unhappy with us two being the main
contact/people who have those right on freenode, also contact us so we
can get it changed.

- Sebastian

> > Also I am not sure if the
> > steering council email address is published anywhere, IIRC it was
> > possible for anyone to send an email to it (OTOH, it would be nice
> > to
> > not catch spam there, so maybe it is fine to ask for the address
> > first).
> 
> Google's spam filters are pretty good. For the record, it is numpy-st
> eering-council at googlegroups.com
> 
> Cheers,
> Ralf
> 
>  
> > - Sebastian
> > 
> > > 
> > > Ralf
> > > 
> > > > > There's also a Gitter numpy channel. AFAIK few/none core devs
> > are
> > > > > regularly active on either IRC or Gitter. I would suggest
> > that we
> > > > > document both these channels as community-run at
> > > > > https://scipy.org/scipylib/mailing-lists.html, and give
> > Nathan
> > > > and
> > > > > others who are interested the permissions they need.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Yeah, the gitter seems pretty inactive as well. But I guess it
> > > > doesn't
> > > > hurt to mention them.
> > > > 
> > > > - Sebastian
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > I think our official recommendation for usage questions is
> > > > > StackOverflow.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Ralf
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I’m also in the process of getting ops for #matplotlib for
> > > > similar
> > > > > > spam-related reasons. I’d say all the scientific python IRC
> > > > > > channels I’m in get a decent amount of traffic (perhaps 10%
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > number of questions that get asked on StackOverflow) and
> > it’s a
> > > > > > good venue for asking quick questions. Let’s hope that
> > forcing
> > > > > > people to register doesn’t kill that, although there’s not
> > much
> > > > we
> > > > > > can do given the spam attack.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Nathan
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:03 PM Matti Picus <matti.picus at gma
> > il.c
> > > > om>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Over the past few days spambots have been hitting
> > freenode's
> > > > IRC 
> > > > > > > channels[0, 1]. It turns out the #numpy channel has no
> > > > operator,
> > > > > > > so we 
> > > > > > > cannot make the channel mode "|+q $~a"[2] - i.e. only
> > > > registered 
> > > > > > > freenode users can talk but anyone can listen.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I was in touch with the freenode staff, they requested
> > that
> > > > > > > someone from 
> > > > > > > the steering council reach out to them at ||projects at free
> > node
> > > > .net
> > > > > > > , here 
> > > > > > > is the quote from the discussion:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > it's pretty much a matter of them sending an email
> > telling us
> > > > who
> > > > > > > they'd 
> > > > > > > like to represent them on freenode, which channels and
> > cloak
> > > > > > > namespaces 
> > > > > > > they want, and any info we might need on the project
> > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In the mean time they set the channel mode appropriately,
> > so
> > > > this
> > > > > > > is 
> > > > > > > also a notice that if you want to chat on the #numpy IRC
> > > > channel
> > > > > > > you 
> > > > > > > need to register.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Hope someone from the council picks this up and reaches
> > out
> > > > to
> > > > > > > them, and 
> > > > > > > will decide who is to able to become channel operators
> > (the
> > > > > > > recommended 
> > > > > > > practice is to use it like sudo, only assume the role
> > when
> > > > needed
> > > > > > > then 
> > > > > > > turn it back off).
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Matti
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > [0] https://freenode.net/news/spambot-attack
> > > > > > > [1] https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake
> > > > > > > [2] https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201808/fighting_spam_o
> > n_fr
> > > > eeno
> > > > > > > de.html
> > > > > > > |
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> > > > > > > NumPy-Discussion at python.org
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> > > > > > 
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> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
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