[pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)

Radomir Dopieralski sheep at sheep.art.pl
Mon Dec 19 20:32:08 CET 2011

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 20:01, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
> Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:01, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>>> anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Radomir Dopieralski <sheep at sheep.art.pl>wrote:
>>>>>  On Dec 2, 2011 11:07 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
>>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2011 10:12 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Paul Boddie wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 skip at pobox.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>     anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type
>>>>>>>>>> wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody
>>>>>>>>>>     anatoly> could adjust web-server configuration accordingly.
>>>>>>>>>> There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and
>>>>>>>>>> Jython wikis.  At least there used to be.  Now I see the selector
>>>>> page
>>>>>>>>>> briefly, then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the
>>>>>>>>>> Python wiki.
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it
>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>>> sense to eliminate the "/moin" part, and I guess that this was
>>>>> changed.
>>>>>>>>> I must admit that I haven't been following this list for some time,
>>>>> so I'm
>>>>>>>>> sorry if I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing.
>>>>>>>> The /moin part is still there and AFAIK is needed, since there are
>>>>>>>> several instances of moin running on the wiki.python.org domain:
>>>>>>>>  * Python wiki
>>>>>>>>  * Jython  wiki
>>>>>>>>  * PSF wiki
>>>>>>>> and perhaps more.
>>>>>>> That's not a problem, those urls can be made to work just fine as
>>>>>>> exceptions. I can write apropriate rules if there is a decission to
>>>>> make
>>>>>>> the change.
>>>>>> Could you elaborate a bit ? What are those "exceptions" ?
>>>>> It's not a technical term, I meant it literally. Basically you can
>>>>> configure the web server so that the urls of those other wikis lead to the
>>>>> respective applications, while all other urls lead to the default python
>>>>> wiki. I think it doesn't even require rewrite rules, as scriptalias
>>>>> directives are evaluated in order of occurence. We would of course still
>>>>> have a redirect from the old /moin url.
>>>> If there are no objections, I would say - Radomir, go for it. =)
>>>> To summarize what do we want to do and how it will behave after the
>>>> migration:
>>>>  * wiki.python.org/PageName - is a new shorter way of accessing Python
>>>> knowledge base
>>>>  * wiki.jython.org/PageName - is a new shorter way to access Jython pages
>>>>  * wiki.python.org/moin/(.*)$ - will be a permanent redirect to
>>>> wiki.python.org/\1 to save external links from breaking
>>>>  * wiki.python.org/jython/(.*)$ - the same to  wiki.jython.org/\1
>>> I don't think this will technically work with MoinMoin, since it
>>> needs the URL prefix to distinguish between the wiki instances
>>> in a farm installation.
>>> We could have a redirect from anything not a wiki instance
>>> prefix to wiki.python.org/moin/\1, but the wiki pages themselves
>>> would still need to use the /moin/ prefix.

That's not a problem, I can match both on the domain and on the prefix
-- and I can treat no prefix as yet another match for the prefix.
So, wiki.python.org would lead to the python wiki, wiki.jython.org to
the jython wiki, etc. plus there would be redirects from
wiki.python.org/moin/* and wiki.python.org/jython/*.

>> I'm sorry, but I must protest here. As one of the core developers of
>> MoinMoin I have never heard about such a limitation -- perhaps in was
>> there in some older versions of MoinMoin, from before I joined. In
>> fact, the wikis at *.moinmo.in itself are running as a farm, as far as
>> I know, and they are all top-level wikis. The regular expressions in
>> farmconfig can match the domain names just fine. Even if there was
>> such a limitation, it would be very easy to work around with Apache's
>> rewrite rules. There are no technical problems preventing us from
>> using the setup that Anatoly described, and I will be glad to
>> configure the wikis once an agreement is reached.
> Perhaps I wasn't clear:
> The farmconfig.py needs to be able to distinguish between
> different wiki instances and since we have at least three such
> instances running on wiki.python.org I don't see how you
> could have a regular expression separate the three if
> the /moin/ instance is going to be moved to top-level.
> You could need to separate them by domain name, but then
> we'd need new domain names and Apache setups for the PSF wiki
> and possibly other instances running on the server.
>>> BTW: What's so bad about the prefix advertising the use of
>>> MoinMoin for the Python.org wiki ?
>> Personally I don't mind it. I'm just trying to say that there are no
>> technical requirements for it.
> Ok. FWIW, I don't see an issue here, so don't think any action is
> necessary. 5 extra characters to type don't warrant the
> extra maintenance effort, IMHO.

I would do all the work and I don't really mind.

Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl

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