[Python-Dev] Challenge about print >> None

Vladimir Marangozov Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr
Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:40:37 +0200 (CEST)

Tim Peters wrote:
> I'll suggest as an alternative that we have an enormous amount of work to
> complete for the 2.0 release, and continuing to argue about this isn't
> perceived as a reasonable use of limited time.

Fair enough, but I had no choice: this feature was imposed without prior
discussion and I saw it too late to take a stance. I've done my job.

> I've tried it; I like it; anything I say beyond that would just be jerkoff
> rationalizing of the conclusion I'm *condemned* to support by my own
> pleasant experience with it.  Same with Guido.

Nobody is condemned when receptive. You're inflexibly persistent here.

Remove the feature, discuss it, try providing arguments so that we can
agree (or disagree), write the PEP including a summary of the discussion,
then decide and add the feature.

In this particular case, I find Guido's attitude regarding the "rules of
the game" (that you have fixed, btw, PEPs included) quite unpleasant.

I speak for myself. Guido has invited me here so that I could share
my opinions and experience easily and that's what I'm doing in my spare
cycles (no, your agenda is not mine so I won't look at the bug list).
If you think I'm doing more harm than good, no problem. I'd be happy
to decline his invitation and quit.

I'll be even more explit:

There are organizational bugs in the functioning of this micro-society
that would need to be fixed first, IMHO. Other signs about this have
been expressed in the past too. Nobody commented. Silence can't rule
forever. Note that I'm not writing arguments for my own pleasure or to
scratch my nose. My time is precious enough, just like yours.

> We went over it again at a PythonLabs mtg today, and compared to the other
> 20 things on our agenda, when it popped up we all agreed "eh" after about a
> minute.  It has supporters and detractors, the arguments are getting all of
> more elaborate, extreme and repetitive with each iteration, and positions
> are clearly frozen already.  That's what a BDFL is for.  He's seen all the
> arguments; they haven't changed his mind; and, sorry, but it's a tempest in
> a teapot regardless.


Open your eyes, though.

pre-release-pressure-can-do-more-harm-than-it-should'ly ly
       Vladimir MARANGOZOV          | Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr
http://sirac.inrialpes.fr/~marangoz | tel:(+33-4)76615277 fax:76615252