[Python-Dev] PEP: Consolidating names and classes in the `unittest` module (updated 2008-07-15)

Rodrigo Bernardo Pimentel rbp at isnomore.net
Wed Jul 16 16:26:30 CEST 2008

On Wed, Jul 16 2008 at 10:54:26AM BRT, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Rodrigo Bernardo Pimentel <rbp at isnomore.net> writes:
> > On Tue, Jul 15 2008 at 07:38:59PM BRT, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> > > The "consistency" argument leads to the PEP 8 names. The removal
> > > of redundant names is not made in the name of consistency, but of
> > > API simplicity.
> > 
> > Isn't this *enourmous* discussion a clear sign that a lot of people
> > *won't* find a trimmed-down API simpler?
> The majority of this discussion hasn't been about whether or not to
> trim the API, so I'd have to answer no. Instead, it shows that people
> have different ideas of how it should be done.

Ok, I've oversimplified my sentence. In more words, what I meant was that I
don't think the benefits of getting rid of assert* or fail* methods are very
clear (thus my "+1" on Tres's suggestion of leaving both), and it doesn't
seem to me like we're progressing in the direction of reaching an agreement
(though there has been great exposition of arguments). I mean, the benefits
of removing fail* seem clear for some people, but are strongly opposed by
others, and even the benefits of removing assert* seem clear for some

All this lead to my previous sentence, which should read: isn't this
*enourmous* discussion a clear sign that a lot of people *won't* find an API
without fail* (or assert*) simpler? I agree there's trimming to be done, of
course. I'm just saying that there's clearly no agreement on this particular
point of whether to remove fail* completely, so maybe we should take it as
as indication that it might not actually simplify the API (in the sense of
how comfortable people are with using it).

> > If assert* to fail* mapping is consistent, then voilá, simple,
> > everyone can remember method names (+1 for PEP-8 renaming), everyone
> > is free to think of each test as they please.
> Thanks for the feedback.

No problem! It's great to be in a community where these things are so openly
discussed :)

Rodrigo Bernardo Pimentel <rbp at isnomore.net> | GPG: <0x0DB14978>

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