[Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r83893 - python/branches/release27-maint/Misc/ACKS

[Alexander Belopolsky]

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:53 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
..
> People need to recognize that any kind of reference is really irrelevant
> here. There is no "right" order that is better than any other "right"
> order. I'd personally object to any English language dictionary telling
> me how my name sorts in the alphabet.
>
Even when an English language dictionary follows German rules?  :-)
BTW,  I did quietly bring Peter Åstrand back to the end of the list
yesterday and I agree that this is rather unimportant.

> (and yes, I do think it's "wrong" that it got sorted after Lyngvig -
> in Germany, we put the ö as if it was "oe" - unlike the Swedes, which
> put the very same letter after the rest of the alphabet. So the
> ö in Chrigström sorts in a different way than the ö in Löwis. If I move
> to Sweden, the file would have to change :-)

I did search the mail archives for the discussion of Å's sorting order
and now I think that the reference to Swedish rules is an ex-post
rationalization.  It looks like the original order was by Latin-1 code
point and that explains both Å and ö positions.  (I actually believe
that the Swedish rules are fairly modern as well.  Unlike other
nations,  Swedes don't mind breaking with traditions for modern
conveniences.  As far as I know, Sweden is the only nation where
polite "you" (plural) was abolished by a language reform.)

I raised this issue after one of my early check-ins got a response
that acknowledgments should be alphabetized rather than added at the
end of the list. [1]   I pointed out that given that the file is
encoded in UTF-8, it can potentially have last names starting with any
unicode character and I was not familiar with any formal procedure
that would define an alphabetic order in this case.   A short
brainstorming session on IRC and the tracker resulted with an
agreement that no formal rule exists and the best we can do is to
define the order as "rough".

I am not 100% happy with this because I am sure people will keep
discovering that the order in the file does not match the order
suggested by their favorite sort program.   I was also hoping to learn
from this discussion what the state of the art in in sorting unicode
words is.  I believe this issue is addressed by some obscure parts of
the unicode standard, but I am not familiar with them.


[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-checkins/2010-May/093650.html