[Python-Dev] Status of packaging in 3.3

[Alex Clark]

Hi,

On 6/21/12 7:56 AM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
> On 6/21/12 11:08 AM, Dag Sverre Seljebotn wrote:
>> ...
>> David Cournapeau's Bento project takes the opposite approach,
>> everything is explicit and without any magic.
>>
>> http://cournape.github.com/Bento/
>>
>> It had its 0.1.0 release a week ago.
>>
>> Please, I don't want to reopen any discussions about Bento here --
>> distutils2 vs. Bento discussions have been less than constructive in
>> the past -- I just wanted to make sure everybody is aware that
>> distutils2 isn't the only horse in this race. I don't know if there
>> are others too?
>>
> That's *exactly* the kind of approach that has made me not want to
> continue.
>
> People are too focused on implementations, and 'how distutils sucks'
> 'how setuptools sucks' etc 'I'll do better' etc
>
> Instead of having all the folks involved in packaging sit down together
> and try to fix the issues together by building PEPs describing what
> would be a common set of standards, they want to create their own tools
> from scratch.
>
> That will not work.


But you can't tell someone or some group of folks that, and expect them 
to listen. Most times NIH is pejorative[1], but sometimes something 
positive comes out of it.


> And I will say here again what I think we should do
> imho:
>
> 1/ take all the packaging PEPs and rework them until everyone is happy
> (compilation sucks in distutils ?  write a PEP !!!)
>
> 2/ once we have a consensus, write as many tools as you want, if they
> rely on the same standards => interoperability => win.
>
> But I must be naive because everytime I tried to reach people that were
> building their own tools to ask them to work with us on the PEPs, all I
> was getting was "distutils sucks!'


And that's the best you can do: give your opinion. I understand the 
frustration, but we have to let people succeed and/or fail on their own[2].


>
> It worked with the OS packagers guys though, we have built a great data
> files managment system in packaging + the versions (386)


Are you referring to "the" packaging/distutils2 or something else?


Alex


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here
[2] 
http://docs.pythonpackages.com/en/latest/advanced.html#buildout-easy-install-vs-virtualenv-pip


>
>
>
>
>> --
>> Dag Sverre Seljebotn
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>


-- 
Alex Clark · http://pythonpackages.com