[Python-Dev] Migrate python-dev to Mailman 3?

Wes Turner wes.turner at gmail.com
Thu Oct 26 10:28:02 EDT 2017

On Thursday, October 26, 2017, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 26 October 2017 at 10:24, Victor Stinner <victor.stinner at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > We are using Mailman 3 for the new buildbot-status mailing list and it
> > works well:
> >
> > https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/list/buildbot-status@python.org/
> >
> > I prefer to read archives with this UI, it's simpler to follow
> > threads, and it's possible to reply on the web UI!
> >
> > To be honest, we got some issues when the new security-announce
> > mailing list was quickly migrated from Mailman 2 to Mailman 3, but
> > issues were quicky fixed as well.
> >
> > Would it be possible to migrate python-dev to Mailman 3? Do you see
> > any blocker issue?
> >
> > I sent to email to the Python postmaster as well.
> My only use of the pipermail archives is to find permanent URLs for
> mails I want to refer people to. My usage goes as follows:
> 1. Google search for a post.
> 2. Paste in the URL to an email.
> Or, if I have the post already (usually in my email client).
> 1. Check the date and subject of the post.
> 2. Go to the pipermail article by month, and scan the list for the
> subject and author.
> 3. Click on the link, check it's the right email, copy the URL.
> 4. Paste it into my email.
> I don't use the archives for reading. If the above two usages are
> still available, I don't care. But in particular, the fact that
> individual posts are searchable from Google is important to me. And in
> the second usage, having a single scrollable webpage with no
> extraneous data just subject/author and a bit of threading by
> indentation speeds up my usage a lot - the UI you linked to (and the
> monthly archive page with the initial lines of postings on it) is FAR
> too cluttered to be usable for my purposes.

> So basically, what I'm asking is what would be the support for the use
> case "Find a permanent link to an archived article as fast as possible
> based on subject/author or a Google search".

The complexity of this process is also very wastefully frustrating to me.
(Maybe it's in the next month's message tree? No fulltext search? No way to
even do an inurl: search because of the URIs?!)

Isn't there a way to append a permalink to the relayed message footers?
Google Groups and Github do this and it saves a lot of time.

[Re-searches for things]

Mailman3 adds an RFC 5064 "Archived-At" header with a link that some
clients provide the ability to open in a normal human browser:


I often click the "view it on Github" link in GitHub issue emails. (It's
after the '--' email signature delimiter, so it doesn't take up so much

"[feature] Add permalink to mail message to the footer when delivering

> Finally, how would a transition be handled? I assume the old archives
> would be retained, so would there be a cut-off date and people would
> have to know to use the old or new archives based on the date of the
> message?

Could an HTTP redirect help with directing users to the new or old archives?

> Paul
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