[Python-ideas] from __past__ import division, str, etc

[Giampaolo Rodola']

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 9 Jan 2014 22:03, "Giampaolo Rodola'" <g.rodola at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9 Jan 2014 09:49, "Amber Yust" <amber.yust at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Also note that even if publicly visible projects are outnumbered by
> private projects, the public projects tend to have a much larger impact on
> the overall ecosystem, because they're used by many entities (whereas
> private projects are typically only used by a single entity given their
> nature).
> >>
> >> It also mistakenly assumes our goal is to get existing *applications*
> to migrate. It really isn't - we're obviously delighted if app developers
> choose to switch (as it indicates we have created a compelling platform),
> but we *needed* key library and framework developers to add Python 3
> support in order to bootstrap the Python 3 development ecosystem.
> >
> >
> > True.
> > I think one of the key points here is that different important libs
> haven't been ported yet:
> > https://python3wos.appspot.com/
> > Too many of them are still marked red and IMO that is the main reason
> why a lot of people are being so hesitant, not unicode.
> > "boto" alone counts as hundreds of thousands potential users which
> simply cannot migrate.
> > Django made the transition only a couple of months ago, which basically
> means it's still in a beta state, and AFAIK fundamental projects such as
> Twisted don't even have an ETA.
> > Considering 5 years have passed since Python 3.0 first made it's
> appearance I consider this a *serious* delay.
> > From a user standpoint this sort of appears as a signal which translates
> into "if neither big project X has migrated after 5 years why should I?".
> > That's likely to apply even if project X is not within the list of your
> dependencies, because you may not depend from X now but maybe you will in
> the future, either because you need X or because Y requires X in order to
> work. It is *crucial* for people maintaining those libraries to put Python
> 3 porting on top of their TODO list at the cost of not working on new
> features.
>
> This is still focusing on migrating *existing* applications.
>
I was talking about existing third party libraries (Twisted, gevent, lxml
etc), not user applications.
In order to port user applications you need those libraries to be ported
first, and it is crucial that at least the most used ones are ported.

> A user that starts with Python 3 simply wouldn't consider a dependency
> like boto as an option
>
Why not? Note that I picked "boto" just because it's the first in that
list.

> and would reach for asyncio rather than Twisted for their explicit
> asynchronous programming needs.
>
I would't be so sure about that. We're talking about two very mature and
established projects, with tons of third-party components (see
https://github.com/facebook/tornado/wiki/Links), each solving a common set
of problems in their own way, which will likely continue to be used
independently from asyncio (which is still in a beta state) for quite a
while.


--- Giampaolo
https://code.google.com/p/psutil/
https://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/
https://code.google.com/p/pysendfile/
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