[Python-ideas] Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause

David Mertz mertz at gnosis.cx
Sun Sep 16 05:45:18 EDT 2018

You have missed the use of *reductio ad absurdum* in my comment and several
others. This argument structure is one of the fundamental forms of good
logical reasoning, and shows nothing dismissive or insulting. The specifics
book titles I used were carefully chosen, and you'd do well to think about
why those specific books (and read all of them, if you haven't).

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 11:40 PM Franklin? Lee <leewangzhong+python at gmail.com>

> I am very disappointed with the responses to this thread. We have
> mockery, dismissiveness, and even insinuations about OP's
> psychological health. Whether or not OP is a troll, and whether or not
> OP's idea has merit, that kind of response is unnecessary and
> unhelpful.
> (While I lean toward OP being a troll, the fact that the OP's name is
> the same as a Canadian actress is insignificant. Chinese surnames are
> single-syllable, there are only so many one-syllable surnames, and
> "Samantha" is a common-enough name.)
> Since Antoine challenged Calvin to name names, I will name names. If
> the thread devolves into one-on-one fights, then you'll know why
> Calvin didn't do it.
> Antoine:
> - Accusing the OP of not being open-minded for proposing (not
> "insisting on"!) the idea at all.
>     "You ask others to be open-minded, but fail to show such an
> attitude yourself."
> - Labeling the OP's position as reactionary, and intolerant.
>     "And, as a French person, I have to notice this is yet another
> attempt to impose reactionary, intolerant American politics on the
> rest of the world (or of the Python community)."
> David Mertz: Sarcastically suggesting that we burn programming books
> if they use "beautiful" in their titles.
> Chris Angelico: This implied accusation:
>     "Not everyone assumes the worst about words."
> Oleg:
> - Dismissing the whole post as a troll.*
>     "Nice trolling, go on! :-D"
> - Calling the OP's idea stupid, and calling a different (settled)
> decision stupid. (One can argue Oleg isn't really calling anything
> stupid, but I preemptively say that's a stupid argument.)
>     "Removing master/slave is almost as stupid as ugly/beautiful."
> - Dismissing the stance as oversensitive offense-taking.
>     "People shouldn't try and take personal offense to things that
> haven't been applied to them personally, or, even worse, complain
> about a term applied to anything/anyone else in a way they perceive to
> be offensive."
> - Mockery: The entire email with this line is spent on mockery:
>     'I also propose to ban the following technical terms that carry
> dark meanings: "abort", "kill" and "execute" (stop the genocide!) ...'
> Greg: Another email spent entirely on mockery:
>     """If we're going to object to "slave", we should object to
> "robot" as well, since it's derived from a Czech word meaning "forced
> worker"."""
> * There is a difference between discussing whether it is a troll post
> and flippantly stating it as fact. The first brings up a relevant
> concern. The second says, "No one can reasonably believe what you
> claim to believe, so I won't treat you as a rational person."
> Jacco:
> - This is completely disrespectful and way over the line. Don't try to
> make a psychological evaluation from two emails, especially when it's
> just someone having an idea you don't like.
>     """However, if merely the word ugly being on a page can be
> "harmful", what you really need is professional help, not a change to
> Python. Because there's obviously been some things in your past you
> need to work through."""
> - Mockery.
>     """If we have to ban "Ugly" for american sensitivities, then
> perhaps we need to ban a number of others for china's sensitivities.
> Where will it end ?"""
> There are people making serious arguments against the idea, including
> the people above. But those arguments could have been made without the
> above examples. The above quotes don't treat the OP or the OP's ideas
> as worthy of a serious and mature response.
> P.S.: I read Poe's Law not as a warning against falling for trolls,
> but as a warning about confirmation bias. If I keep falling for poes
> of group G, it's probably because I'm too far too willing to believe
> negative things about G, and don't care to understand them.
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