[Python-ideas] Moving to another forum system where

James Lu jamtlu at gmail.com
Wed Sep 19 11:59:42 EDT 2018

> Most of the real decisions are actually taken
> outside of it, with more direct channels in the small groups of
> contributors.
It would be very nice if there was more transparency in
this process. The language is better if more subjective
personal experience heard- but to make that happen, 
the forum experience must be better for both

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 8:21:46 PM UTC-4, James Lu wrote:
> > Is that really an issue here? I personally haven't seen threads where
> > Brett tried to stop an active discussion, but people ignored him and
> > kept fighting.
> Not personally with Brett, but I have seen multiple people try to stop the 
> “reword or remove beautiful is better than ugly in Zen of Python.” The 
> discussion was going in circles and evolved into attacking each other’s use 
> of logical fallacies. 
> Other than that, my biggest issues with the current mailing system are:
> * There’s no way to keep a updated proposal of your own- if you decide to 
> change your proposal, you have to communicate the change. Then, if you want 
> to find the authoritative current copy, since you might’ve forgotten or you 
> want to join he current discussion, then you have to dig through  the 
> emails and recursively apply the proposed change. It’s just easier if 
> people can have one proposal they can edit themselves.
>   * I’ve seen experienced people get confused about what was the current 
> proposal because they were replying to older emails or they didn’t see the 
> email with the clear examples.
> * The mailing list is frankly obscure. Python community leaders and 
> package maintainers often are not aware or do not participate in 
> Python-ideas. Not many people know how to use or navigate a mailing list.
>   * No one really promotes the mailing list, you have to go out of your 
> way to find where new features are proposed. 
>   * Higher discoverability means more people can participate, providing 
> their own use cases or voting (I mean using like or dislike measures, 
> consensus should still be how things are approved) go out of their way to 
> find so they can propose something. Instead, I envision a forum where 
> people can read and give their 2 cents about what features they might like 
> to see or might not want to see. 
>    * More people means instead of having to make decisions from sometimes 
> subjective personal experience, we can make decisions with confidence in 
> what other Python devs want. 
> Since potential proposers will find it easier to navigate a GUI forum, 
> they can read previous discussions to understand the reasoning, precedent 
> behind rejected and successful features. People proposing things that have 
> already been rejected before can be directed to open a subtopic on the 
> older discussion. 
> > On Sep 18, 2018, at 3:19 PM, python-ideas-request at python.org wrote:
> > 
> > Is that really an issue here? I personally haven't seen threads where
> > Brett tried to stop an active discussion, but people ignored him and
> > kept fighting.
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