[Python-ideas] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

Brett Cannon brett at python.org
Thu Sep 20 14:56:05 EDT 2018

The below email was reported to the PSF board for code of conduct
violations and then passed on to the conduct working group to decide on an
appropriate response.

Based on the WG's recommendation and after discussing it with Titus, the
decision has been made to ban Jacco from python-ideas. Trivializing
assault, using the n-word, and making inappropriate comments about
someone's mental stability are all uncalled for and entirely unnecessary to
carry on a reasonable discourse of conversation that remains welcoming to

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 at 00:18 Jacco van Dorp <j.van.dorp at deonet.nl> wrote:

> Op zo 16 sep. 2018 om 05:40 schreef Franklin? Lee <
> leewangzhong+python at gmail.com>:
>> I am very disappointed with the responses to this thread. We have
>> mockery, dismissiveness, and even insinuations about OP's
>> psychological health. Whether or not OP is a troll, and whether or not
>> OP's idea has merit, that kind of response is unnecessary and
>> unhelpful.
> Sure, I'll take your bait.
>> Jacco:
>> - This is completely disrespectful and way over the line. Don't try to
>> make a psychological evaluation from two emails, especially when it's
>> just someone having an idea you don't like.
>>     """However, if merely the word ugly being on a page can be
>> "harmful", what you really need is professional help, not a change to
>> Python. Because there's obviously been some things in your past you
>> need to work through."""
> Is it, though ? Even more because in order for it to apply to any one
> person's aesthetics, you need to pull it out of context first. You need to
> be looking for it. Being triggered by a word this simple is not exactly a
> sign of mental stability. I know a girl who's been raped more than she can
> count - but the word doesn't trigger her like this(only makes her want to
> beat up rapists). If people can do that, then surely a playground insult
> wont reduce you to tears, right ?
>> - Mockery.
>>     """If we have to ban "Ugly" for american sensitivities, then
>> perhaps we need to ban a number of others for china's sensitivities.
>> Where will it end ?"""
> Well, on the internet, the word "nigger" is already basically banned for
> american sensibilities, while the version in dutch, my language, is
> "neger", which doesn't really have any racist connotation, probably because
> the amount of slaves that have ever been in what's currently the
> netherlands, has been negligible. However, it's use is effectively banned
> because some other culture considers it offensive to use. Why should your
> culture be my censorship ? And it's no coincidence I used china there -
> it's notorious for it's censorship. If merely labeling a word as
> "offensive" is sufficient to ban it, I daresay they'd mark a whole lot more
> words as offensive. And why would their opinion be any less valid than
> yours ?
> Don't think you're special - you're not. If you want to give yourself the
> power to ban words for offensive, you're giving that same power to
> everyone. And since offensive is subjective, it means anybody could ban any
> word, since you couldn't tell the difference between real or fake offense.
> Therefore, it is a disastrous idea and I'll predict the end of Python if
> we go down that route.
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