[Python-ideas] Clearer communication

[Abe Dillon]

[Chris Angelico]
>
> > It's common etiquette to clearly label your edits. That's why you'll see
> people write "EDIT: I changed X, Y, and Z due to <this comment>".
> Requires cooperation and discipline.


Any form of civil communication requires cooperation and discipline.

[Chris Angelico]

> You have no proof that someone didn't unintentionally (or even
> maliciously) change the content of the
> post to misrepresent someone.


A) As I said in the post you're quoting, it's not necessarily true that you
have no proof.
B) I don't know of any forum system that allows you to misrepresent some
one else.
Editing your own post maliciously can only be used to misrepresent what you
said.
Even then, if your edit history is available, any attempt to do so can be
called out.

[Chris Angelico]

> > Reddit can show how long ago a given post was edited (if it was at all)
> and commenters can flag posts that were edited in a misleading way. There's
> also no inherent reason a forum couldn't keep and expose the full history
> of edits to each post.
> >
> Sure, it's possible to keep them all. It's not easy to adequately
> *show* them unless someone specifically says "show me the history".


That's a matter of interface design. It may be just as easy as
un-collapsing responses.
Hopefully, if the community isn't full of liars and jerks, I don't see why
the edit history would
need to be super easy to explore.

[Chris Angelico]

> > It would be interesting if you could link to a specific edit so when
> some one says "I don't understand X and you weren't clear about Z" you
> could edit your post to clarify and link to the edit in a response saying
> "I edited my post to clarify. Thanks!"
> >
> I've seen that. It tends to result in posts that say "I've edited my
> preceding post", which is just as spammy as a followup but still
> disrupts the conversation.


Just saying "I've edited my preceding post" is not the same as being able
to link to the edit so that
the person can clearly see exactly how you addressed their question.

[Chris Angelico]

> Still can't see it as an advantage.


The advantage is that other people don't have to dig down into a
conversation to get all the clarifications and explanations that would
otherwise be missing in your original post.

[Chris Angelico]

> Edits like that are great for something that's meant to be a lasting
> document. That's why a PEP can be edited, and it retains its full
> history. You can go back and look at everything. But the mailing list
> is a discussion forum, not a document showing the final state of a
> discussion.


 I don't see how it would hurt discussion to have both. You can keep the:
"X doesn't make any sense and I don't get Y" comment *and* the response
referencing where those points are addressed *and* the make the fully
edited version of the OP visible *and* allow anyone to review the edit
history. None of those things are mutually exclusive.

On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 5:02 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:52 AM Abe Dillon <abedillon at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [Chris Angelico]
> >>
> >> And then people wonder whether quoted text really aligns with the
> >> original post, whether "sort by post date/time" actually means what it
> >> says, and whether people have actually changed their stance while
> >> editing a post. No thank you. In accounting, git repositories, and
> >> mailing lists, you cannot edit the past - you can only post a
> >> follow-up.
> >
> >
> > It's common etiquette to clearly label your edits. That's why you'll see
> people write "EDIT: I changed X, Y, and Z due to <this comment>".
>
> Requires cooperation and discipline. You have no proof that someone
> didn't unintentionally (or even maliciously) change the content of the
> post to misrepresent someone.
>
> > Reddit can show how long ago a given post was edited (if it was at all)
> and commenters can flag posts that were edited in a misleading way. There's
> also no inherent reason a forum couldn't keep and expose the full history
> of edits to each post.
> >
>
> Sure, it's possible to keep them all. It's not easy to adequately
> *show* them unless someone specifically says "show me the history".
>
> > It would be interesting if you could link to a specific edit so when
> some one says "I don't understand X and you weren't clear about Z" you
> could edit your post to clarify and link to the edit in a response saying
> "I edited my post to clarify. Thanks!"
> >
>
> I've seen that. It tends to result in posts that say "I've edited my
> preceding post", which is just as spammy as a followup but still
> disrupts the conversation. Still can't see it as an advantage.
>
> Edits like that are great for something that's meant to be a lasting
> document. That's why a PEP can be edited, and it retains its full
> history. You can go back and look at everything. But the mailing list
> is a discussion forum, not a document showing the final state of a
> discussion.
>
> ChrisA
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