[Python-ideas] Clearer communication

Marcos Eliziario marcos.eliziario at gmail.com
Fri Feb 1 19:38:32 EST 2019 

Typical technical discussion in threaded discussion foruns
--First Post
  -- First Level
  -- First level with an interesting idea (let's do B?)
     -- 2nd level discussing some potential issues with B
     -- 2nd level workaround for said issues, namely, making sure D
     -- 2nd level more discussion
     -- 2nd level add nausean
        -- 3rd replied by mistake last poster, not parent thread
        -- 3rd some are answering here now
        -- 2nd another guy answering ad nausean here
     -- 2nd unrelated thoughts
     -- 2nd discussion continues on the parent level, but some answers are
buried on the level below "ad nausean
     -- a consensus is found!
     -- Yeah, let's do B, but taking care of D
   -- bla bla bla
   ....
   ....
   -- Hey, what if we did B?
      -- all over again.........



Em sex, 1 de fev de 2019 às 22:30, Abe Dillon <abedillon at gmail.com>
escreveu:

> [David Mertz]
>
>> I have absolutely no interest in any system that arranges comments in
>> anything but related thread and chronological order. I DO NOT want any
>> rating or evaluation of comments of any kind other than my own evaluation
>> based on reading them. Well, also in reading the informed opinions of other
>> readers.
>
>
>
> I would find it useless if not actively counterproductive to follow any
>> system where such ratings of comments existed.
>
>
> Then just sort by chronological order.
>
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 6:19 PM David Mertz <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
>
>> I have absolutely no interest in any system that arranges comments in
>> anything but related thread and chronological order. I DO NOT want any
>> rating or evaluation of comments of any kind other than my own evaluation
>> based on reading them. Well, also in reading the informed opinions of other
>> readers.
>>
>> I would find it useless if not actively counterproductive to follow any
>> system where such ratings of comments existed.
>>
>> There is one property that every system invented to supercede email have
>> in common. They are all dramatically worse in almost every way.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 5:09 PM Abe Dillon <abedillon at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>  [Dan Sommers]
>>>
>>>> Another point in favor of email clients over web pages is
>>>> that there are many of them, and *you* control the display
>>>> and other preferences rather than whoever wrote the forum
>>>> or owns the server.
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a tool called the Reddit Enhancement Suite or RES (and probably
>>> others)
>>> That lets you control a great deal of the display and other preferences,
>>> however; I'm not
>>> sure how that control compares to something like Thunderbird.
>>>
>>> One thing that's nice about Reddit is you can link to posts, so if
>>> you've already discussed something at length in another thread,
>>> you can simply refer to that discussion.
>>>
>>>  [Dan Sommers]
>>>
>>>> In an optimal technical discussion, opinions from users
>>>> don't count for anything.  The ideas stand on their own
>>>> merits and research and metrics; users only serve to
>>>> confirm the methodology.
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot can be said about how an ideal world would work. Ideally, we could
>>> define the meaning of life and good and evil and we wouldn't need this
>>> clumsy system of laws and courts to approximate the whole mess.
>>>
>>> I don't think it's that crazy to think that a voting system might
>>> approximate merit a little better than the timestamp on a post.
>>> It's not going to be perfect, but perfect shouldn't be the enemy of
>>> better.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 3:17 PM Dan Sommers <
>>> 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/1/19 2:58 PM, Abe Dillon wrote:
>>>> > [Dan Sommers]
>>>> >
>>>> >> A mailing list is not a feed... Dan, a decades and decades long fan
>>>> of
>>>> >> mailing lists and real email clients.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm only familiar with Gmail which keeps reply chains coherent and
>>>> moves
>>>> > each chain to the top of my "forums" tab based on who responded last.
>>>> > I haven't explored the various email clients available, can you
>>>> suggest one?
>>>>
>>>> I used mutt for a long time, and then claws-mail, and now
>>>> thunderbird.  They all met my needs, although I did give
>>>> up on claws-mail when I got a hidpi display (claws-mail
>>>> based on gtk2, which doesn't grok hidpi displays).
>>>>
>>>> Another point in favor of email clients over web pages is
>>>> that there are many of them, and *you* control the display
>>>> and other preferences rather than whoever wrote the forum
>>>> or owns the server.
>>>>
>>>> > [Dan Sommers]
>>>> >
>>>> >> Whoever posted last ends up at the bottom of the thread, so that I
>>>> can
>>>> >> read threads from top to bottom in chronological order.  Getting the
>>>> >> last word in shouldn't earn a spot at the top of the list.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > That doesn't like any closer an approximation to a merit-based
>>>> solution to
>>>> > me.
>>>> Perhaps not all by itself.  Many/most email clients allow
>>>> individual users to "score" emails by various criteria, and
>>>> then to display higher scoring messages "above" the others,
>>>> or not display certain messages at all.  Personally, I don't
>>>> use the automated systems, but they're very comprehensive
>>>> (arguably too complicated), and again, *user* adjustable.
>>>>
>>>> In an optimal technical discussion, opinions from users
>>>> don't count for anything.  The ideas stand on their own
>>>> merits and research and metrics; users only serve to
>>>> confirm the methodology.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
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>>>>
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-- 
Marcos Eliziário Santos
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