[Python-ideas] Clearer communication
Abe Dillon
abedillon at gmail.com
Fri Feb 1 20:01:58 EST 2019
[Marcos Eliziario]
> Typical technical discussion in threaded discussion foruns
> --First Post
> -- First Level
> -- First level with an interesting idea (let's do B?)
> -- 2nd level discussing some potential issues with B
> -- 2nd level workaround for said issues, namely, making sure D
> -- 2nd level more discussion
> -- 2nd level add nausean
> -- 3rd replied by mistake last poster, not parent thread
> -- 3rd some are answering here now
> -- 2nd another guy answering ad nausean here
> -- 2nd unrelated thoughts
> -- 2nd discussion continues on the parent level, but some answers are
> buried on the level below "ad nausean
> -- a consensus is found!
> -- Yeah, let's do B, but taking care of D
> -- bla bla bla
> ....
> ....
> -- Hey, what if we did B?
> -- all over again.........
Is this intended to make forums look better or worse than the typical
Python-ideas thread. My experience has been:
-- First Post
-- Counterpoint A
-- I'm -1 on this
-- Counterpoint A
-- Counterpoint A
-- Counterpoint B
-- Counterpoint A
-- I'm -1 on this
-- Counterpoint A
...
On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 6:38 PM Marcos Eliziario <marcos.eliziario at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Typical technical discussion in threaded discussion foruns
> --First Post
> -- First Level
> -- First level with an interesting idea (let's do B?)
> -- 2nd level discussing some potential issues with B
> -- 2nd level workaround for said issues, namely, making sure D
> -- 2nd level more discussion
> -- 2nd level add nausean
> -- 3rd replied by mistake last poster, not parent thread
> -- 3rd some are answering here now
> -- 2nd another guy answering ad nausean here
> -- 2nd unrelated thoughts
> -- 2nd discussion continues on the parent level, but some answers are
> buried on the level below "ad nausean
> -- a consensus is found!
> -- Yeah, let's do B, but taking care of D
> -- bla bla bla
> ....
> ....
> -- Hey, what if we did B?
> -- all over again.........
>
>
>
> Em sex, 1 de fev de 2019 às 22:30, Abe Dillon <abedillon at gmail.com>
> escreveu:
>
>> [David Mertz]
>>
>>> I have absolutely no interest in any system that arranges comments in
>>> anything but related thread and chronological order. I DO NOT want any
>>> rating or evaluation of comments of any kind other than my own evaluation
>>> based on reading them. Well, also in reading the informed opinions of other
>>> readers.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would find it useless if not actively counterproductive to follow any
>>> system where such ratings of comments existed.
>>
>>
>> Then just sort by chronological order.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 6:19 PM David Mertz <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
>>
>>> I have absolutely no interest in any system that arranges comments in
>>> anything but related thread and chronological order. I DO NOT want any
>>> rating or evaluation of comments of any kind other than my own evaluation
>>> based on reading them. Well, also in reading the informed opinions of other
>>> readers.
>>>
>>> I would find it useless if not actively counterproductive to follow any
>>> system where such ratings of comments existed.
>>>
>>> There is one property that every system invented to supercede email have
>>> in common. They are all dramatically worse in almost every way.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 5:09 PM Abe Dillon <abedillon at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> [Dan Sommers]
>>>>
>>>>> Another point in favor of email clients over web pages is
>>>>> that there are many of them, and *you* control the display
>>>>> and other preferences rather than whoever wrote the forum
>>>>> or owns the server.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is a tool called the Reddit Enhancement Suite or RES (and
>>>> probably others)
>>>> That lets you control a great deal of the display and other
>>>> preferences, however; I'm not
>>>> sure how that control compares to something like Thunderbird.
>>>>
>>>> One thing that's nice about Reddit is you can link to posts, so if
>>>> you've already discussed something at length in another thread,
>>>> you can simply refer to that discussion.
>>>>
>>>> [Dan Sommers]
>>>>
>>>>> In an optimal technical discussion, opinions from users
>>>>> don't count for anything. The ideas stand on their own
>>>>> merits and research and metrics; users only serve to
>>>>> confirm the methodology.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A lot can be said about how an ideal world would work. Ideally, we
>>>> could define the meaning of life and good and evil and we wouldn't need
>>>> this clumsy system of laws and courts to approximate the whole mess.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it's that crazy to think that a voting system might
>>>> approximate merit a little better than the timestamp on a post.
>>>> It's not going to be perfect, but perfect shouldn't be the enemy of
>>>> better.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 3:17 PM Dan Sommers <
>>>> 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/1/19 2:58 PM, Abe Dillon wrote:
>>>>> > [Dan Sommers]
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> A mailing list is not a feed... Dan, a decades and decades long fan
>>>>> of
>>>>> >> mailing lists and real email clients.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I'm only familiar with Gmail which keeps reply chains coherent and
>>>>> moves
>>>>> > each chain to the top of my "forums" tab based on who responded last.
>>>>> > I haven't explored the various email clients available, can you
>>>>> suggest one?
>>>>>
>>>>> I used mutt for a long time, and then claws-mail, and now
>>>>> thunderbird. They all met my needs, although I did give
>>>>> up on claws-mail when I got a hidpi display (claws-mail
>>>>> based on gtk2, which doesn't grok hidpi displays).
>>>>>
>>>>> Another point in favor of email clients over web pages is
>>>>> that there are many of them, and *you* control the display
>>>>> and other preferences rather than whoever wrote the forum
>>>>> or owns the server.
>>>>>
>>>>> > [Dan Sommers]
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Whoever posted last ends up at the bottom of the thread, so that I
>>>>> can
>>>>> >> read threads from top to bottom in chronological order. Getting the
>>>>> >> last word in shouldn't earn a spot at the top of the list.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > That doesn't like any closer an approximation to a merit-based
>>>>> solution to
>>>>> > me.
>>>>> Perhaps not all by itself. Many/most email clients allow
>>>>> individual users to "score" emails by various criteria, and
>>>>> then to display higher scoring messages "above" the others,
>>>>> or not display certain messages at all. Personally, I don't
>>>>> use the automated systems, but they're very comprehensive
>>>>> (arguably too complicated), and again, *user* adjustable.
>>>>>
>>>>> In an optimal technical discussion, opinions from users
>>>>> don't count for anything. The ideas stand on their own
>>>>> merits and research and metrics; users only serve to
>>>>> confirm the methodology.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Python-ideas mailing list
>>>>> Python-ideas at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas
>>>>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Python-ideas mailing list
>>>> Python-ideas at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas
>>>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Python-ideas mailing list
>> Python-ideas at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas
>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
>
> --
> Marcos Eliziário Santos
> mobile/whatsapp/telegram: +55(21) 9-8027-0156
> skype: marcos.eliziario at gmail.com
> linked-in : https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliziario/
>
>
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