Zope style (was: tuning our site (was: help! advocacy resources needed fast))

[Cameron Laird]

In article <irdbl-1ds.ln1 at news.lairds.org>,
Kyler Laird  <Kyler at news.Lairds.org> wrote:
>claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>
>>Also, I don't believe *at
>>all* arguments about how Web designers need to work in
>>DTML; it would interest me a great deal to try to thrash
>>that out with someone who sees it differently.
>
>Are you baiting me?  Yes, I still use DTML for forms that
>I know are going to be maintained by other people.  With
>enough of the right "dtml-let" statements, it's usable.
>
>I could do just as well in Python using """ blocks.  That
>would also allow me to avoid having to make a break to
>Python when the functionality required gets too much.
>
>So...I'm no longer willing to argue for DTML.  I use it
>for historical reasons only.
>
>--kyler

Nah, I'm not baiting.  I'm just such a fair-minded guy I find
it really interesting when one technology is unequivocally su-
perior to another.  I think we have that with DTML vs. Python
scripts.

There are a couple of pertinent facts.  First, much of the
passion "Web designers" are supposed to have for "templates"
comes from the supposition that they want stuff to look like 
HTML, so they can use their "HTML editors".  Is *anyone* doing
that with Zope, though?  It would surprise me.  OK, I'm regu-
larly surprised; this one would surprise me a *lot*.  The
ergonomics of that particular combination are just all wrong.

Second, I strongly agree:  write
  source_block_that_Web_monkeys_can_edit = """
    <!-- There's a whole bunch of HTML here. -->
    <h2>a heading</h2>
	 ...
  """
and the non-programmers on the team can cope.

Finally, while your dtml-let is an effective style, I end up
frustrated when I use it, because projects always, always, 
always seem to need more parametrization; managers say, "I want
it just like that, except it needs to {apply to a different
continent,show the current contents of the order,show the 
expanded display when the user has selected that, ...}."  I'm
going to be scripting.  I might as well face it from the start.

That's my sentiment, at least.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html