[python-uk] Suggestions / best practices for deployment

Stestagg stestagg at gmail.com
Thu May 16 12:52:31 CEST 2013

The Zope 'brand' got trashed back in the bad old days.  If things have
truly improved, then the sensible thing to do would be to release the new
code in a way that has no obvious links to the name 'Zope', and let that
stand on its own merits.

Another factor here, is that the current trend is towards loosely coupled,
modular systems, look at flask or (to an extent) django.  The feeling of
having to 'buy in' to an ecosystem goes against the python ethos, in my


On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Matt Hamilton <matth at netsight.co.uk>wrote:

> On 16 May 2013, at 11:22, Tim Diggins wrote:
> > PS at the risk of starting a flame war: "zc.buildout"… --shudder--
> > Feels like there are two different python communities sometimes, those
> that use zope-derived rather java-flavoured tools and mindset, and the rest.
> I don't want to start a flamewar either, but I am interested in what
> exactly makes you shudder about zc.buildout?
> I agree with you about the two separate communities…well to a degree. When
> Zope started way back when, there was no best practise, and so it had to
> create its own path. There were a lot of mistakes along the way, and a lot
> of lessons learnt. But there were a lot of things that were way more
> advanced than anything out there at the time. There was no easy_install,
> pip, eggs… even PyPI (the cheeseshop) was in its infancy.
> Zope2 was a massive beast with quite a bit of momentum and it took quite
> some time to re-align it with the best practise as it emerged.
> But these days, it is very 'pythonic' and fits in with the rest of the
> community pretty will I think. I think the people that generally run
> screaming when the hear anything mentioned that starts with a 'z' are those
> that experienced Zope in its teenage years when it was transitioning to
> follow best practice.
> The Zope community was doing big web application deployments over a decade
> ago and needed tools to manage deployment, configuration management, etc
> and so had to build those tools as the term 'devops' had not even been
> invented yet. A lot of knowledge, experience, pain, and ultimately success
> has come out of that community, and I always feel a bit sad when it is
> written off by people who don't like the smell/flavour of it.
> The Pyramid developers took their knowledge and experience of Zope and
> learnt from its shortcomings and successes and went on to create something
> that really is truly awesome. I wish there was more of that in the Python
> community.
> -Matt
> --
> Matt Hamilton, Technical Director
> Netsight Internet Solutions Limited
> http://www.netsight.co.uk/matth
> Tel: 0117 90 90 90 1 Ext. 15
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