[Pythonmac-SIG] Newbies need IDEs (was Mac User Python Newbie)

[Bob Ippolito]

On Feb 14, 2005, at 12:34 AM, Brendan Simons wrote:

>>
>> Maybe that's a benefit!  Since they have no IDEs (that I know of), a 
>> souped up text editor is the obvious choice.  No room to get confused 
>> or frustrated with the plethora of almost-there IDEs.
>
> I agree that that is probably the best approach to advocate until new 
> tools are ready.   As soon as my skills are sufficiently developed, I 
> would like to address this problem.
>
> For inspiration, ActiveState's python distribution on windows comes 
> with a very tidy little IDE called PythonWin, which is very clean and 
> easy to use.    Also, the PythonCard people put their IDE together in 
> a weekend, so I'm told, because all the necessary parts had already 
> been ported to wxWidgets.  (I made an attempt to bundle this using 
> py2app, but gave up before I could get it to launch).    I think Bob 
> is on the right track getting the necessary components built first.  
> After that, a new-user-friendly IDE should be a simple matter of 
> putting the parts together ;)

The problem with bundling PythonCard with py2app is that it makes no 
sense!  PythonCard is not an application, it's a framework.  It does 
have a whole bunch of little applications (the tools and samples -- or 
at least the "meta-sample") that deserve py2app-ing.

Basically the way I would approach PythonCard is the following:

- Create setup.py scripts for each of the useful applications, these 
should be built with options like "--semi-standalone --site-packages 
--excludes=wx,wxPython,PythonCard" because the users must already have 
these things in order to use them, it makes no sense to bloat the apps. 
  Alternatively this can just be one setup script that calls setup(..) a 
bunch of times with very similar options.
- Subclass bdist_mpkg and create a custom bdist_mpkg command for 
PythonCard that calls into each of these setup scripts to build the 
tools and install them to a particular place, it will also add a 
documentation scheme to put the docs where they're supposed to go (if 
they're supposed to go somewhere outside the package).  py2app's setup 
script does this, so I would use that as an example.
- Write some documentation for PythonCard users that tells them how to 
use py2app.. possibly just tell them to use the py2applet droplet or 
script, and then refer them to the py2app documentation if they have 
more complicated requirements.

A user of the PythonCard, assuming stock Mac OS X, would be instructed 
to do the following
(1) Install Xcode / Developer tools (optional but recommended)
(2) Install PyObjC 1.2 (from .pkg -- mostly to get py2app.  In the 
future, py2app will ship with tools that require PyObjC to be 
installed.)
(3) Install wxPython (from .pkg)
(4) Install PythonCard (from .pkg)
(5) Play with the tools, hopefully poke at the docs.

It would be possible to make 2-4 a single step by creating a big fat 
mpkg that simply contained the three if it was deemed that most 
PythonCard users would not already have these things and if it would 
make their lives that much easier.  Perhaps PythonCard could be 
shoehorned into the MacEnthon project so you just get that (at the 
expense of 100 megs or whatever it is) and then you have an environment 
capable of just about anything.

-bob