[Tutor] upgrading Python

[bhaaluu]

Greetings,

On 10/15/07, Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> "bhaaluu" <bhaaluu at gmail.com> wrote
>
> > Why people even give MS any mind-share is beyond me....
>
> For the same reason most people don't buy kit cars.
> Linux is a great hobbyist environment and if you want your
> OS to be a hobby then use Linux you will learn a lot
> about your computers. But if you just want to unpack
> the box turn it on and start writing documents, editing
> photos etc use Windows (or MacOS).

No, I think that GNU/Linux is now way beyond 'hobbyist environment'.
IBM, Novell, and others are giving it very serious mind-share.
Most of the GNU/Linux distros I've seen can be turned on and
the user can immediately start writing documents, doing spreadsheets,
editing photos, etc.  IF you can point and click in MS-Windows, you
can do the same in GNU/Linux. In fact, the GUIs I've seen on some
GNU/Linux machines make MS-Windows look like an ill-designed toy.
When was the last time you took a look at GNU/Linux? =)

The main reason why NO other OS can get a foothold in the PC desktop
market is because Microsoft has and maintains an illegal monopoly. This
illegally maintained monopoly raises the barrier to entry to the PC
desktop market SO high, that even being given away for Free, another
OS (including the *BSDs) cannot enter the market. Only recently has
DELL begun offering Desktop PCs with GNU/Linux pre-installed.

> I've been working professionally with Unix and Unix-like
> OS for over 20 years now but when I bought a laptop
> for my own use I bought a Mac - Unix without the pain.

So, you use PCs with MS-Windows, and Mac,... really, when was the
last time you took a look at GNU/Linux? My suggestion: Look up
a Linux User Group (LUG) in your local area, and attend their next
meeting. I'm so sure someone will have a recent install of one of
the GNU/Linux distros you can look at. I think you'll be surprised.

> > easy. Once you become familiar with GNU/Linux, you find it is much
> > easier than MS-Windows!
>
> Sorry, I can't agree. Linux has a lot of rough edges
> where you still need to open text files and eit them, stop
> and start services etc That is never going to be easier for
> the average user than clicking a few boxes in a dalog.

Here again, I wonder when you last looked at GNU/Linux? It has been
a long time since I've had to hand-edit a text configuration file to get
something to work. A looooong time! But when I DO need to edit a
config file, I'm REALLY glad it is a text file that is *usually* human-readable.

> Linux is a hobbyist OS, it allows you all the power and flexibility
> but at the expense of exposing great swathes of the under-belly
> of the PC. Most users simply don't want to know that stuff and
> don't have the time to learn.

Like I've said, most users are simply unfamiliar with GNU/Linux.
Linux LiveCDs are a great way to become familiar with GNU/Linux
without installing anything on the hard drive. I think they'll find that
the "great swathes of the under-belly of the PC"  are not exposed.

One really cool thing about GNU/Linux: it isn't plagued with all the
MS-Windows problems that never seem to get fixed properly. Another
cool thing: when you connect a GNU/Linux machine to the Internet,
the OS doesn't automatically send a package to Redmond, WA, telling
them what's on your PC. If I'm not mistaken MS-Vista is the most
intrusive of all the MS-Windows OSs. GNU/Linux is completely opena and
free (free, as in freedom of speech -- all the source code to everything
is available for review, modification, customization, sharing, etc.).

> Fortunately for us Python runs on both so the readers of this
> forum have the luxury of choosing which to use. As a
> programmer there is a much stronger case for using Linux
> because it does allow far greater access and therefore makes
> many programming tasks easier. Plus nearly everything is
> controlled by text files - which are prorammatically
> easy to manipulate.  But for ordinary users Linux remains
> complex.

Take another look at GNU/Linux! All your arguments are old.
Your arguments lead me to believe that you looked at GNU/Linux
several years ago, wrote it off as a 'hobbyist OS', and haven't
looked at it since.

Besides, this is a Programmer's list. So the argument of GNU/Linux
being "too complex" for "most users" doesn't really apply here.
Programmers are "One Percenters". Most users are NOT programmers.
Not only that, they cringe when they hear the word 'programming.'

GNU/Linux is a Programmer's Paradise. Especially for Python!
Now for what seems to be a contradiction: GNU/Linux is a perfect
OS for the hobbyist programmer! It has dozens of compilers/interpreters
available for absolutely free (free as in speech, and free as in beer).
I have 12 feet of shelf space lined up with old MS-DOS/Windows
compilers/libraries that are obsolete. They represent hundreds of
dollars. I started out on MS-DOS/Windows, but soon found out that
being a hobbyist programmer on that platform was Exteremely Expensive.
Being a hobbyist programmer on the GNU/Linux platform is not only
fun, but also is way easier on my pocketbook. =) The last time I looked,
a MS-Windows computer didn't have ANY compiler/interpreter installed
by default? Correct me if I'm wrong. 8^D

> IMHO of course! :-)
> --
> Alan Gauld
> Author of the Learn to Program web site
> http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld

Of course! 8^D

I'm having a great time learning Python on the GNU/Linux platform,
and reading/doing this great Python Tutor mailing list!
-- 
b h a a l u u at g m a i l dot c o m
http://www.geocities.com/ek.bhaaluu/index.html